Valve seat reconditioning

[djburton]

I have several sets of 70s truck heads in decent shape. I would like to touch up the valve seats. Been looking at Neway seat cutters. The videos look like it's a straight forward deal. I would appreciate any thoughts on this. Not trying to put any machinists out of work but local shops are backed up and would like to give this a shot. Thanks!

[Dr Mabuse]

As I understand, guide replacement comes before any valve seat work.

[pbf777]

       I always applaud an individuals' efforts to be self sufficient, I think there needs to be a lot more of this in our society today, but, unless you already have or this is just a first purchase in the direction of accumulating a "Machine Shop", just contract a competent one to do the work.   

       Now, if you don't already have a machine shop for which this purchase would only prove an accessory implement for, if your just determined, and particularly if this is just for seat "touch-up" work then I'd suggest considering "stones"!  Their not popular any more, as they take an exorbitant amount of time, greater effort and knowhow with technique to achieve a proper result, that as compared to more modern equipment available; but "kits" also can be purchased used at auctions for a pittance. And with some familiarity and effort a fine result 'can' be had.   

       We still sometimes utilize stones, that for "touch-up" and "dressing", this on both heads where they really haven't 'used-up' the previously done seat work and even sometimes on new machine cut surfaces to lay down the surface.  And then periodically an oddity comes in the shop that we don't have a applicable cutter for, so often for this out comes the stones. 

       They ain't all new fangled like some of the newer (more expensive) stuff, but you know, for quite a number of decades they were/have been what has cut probably more seats than anything else.   

       Scott.

       P.S.  Oh yeah, the guides need to be "good" first!   

[djburton]

Thanks,gentlemen! These heads came off wrecked trucks many years ago when salvage yards still had this kind of stuff and were in surprisingly good shape. The guides aren't perfect but not needing replacement. The valves are already ground and I plan on doing a slight lap on the exhaust to see how they look,retaining as much hardness as possible. The DIY thing always comes into play with me,not out of necessity but principle. Sometimes it pays off,sometimes not. Probably never use the heads anyway but it's something to do.

[pbf777]

The valves are already ground and I plan on doing a slight lap . . . . .

      Now I'm not there, I don't have the parts in my hand, looking at them, but generally I would be of the impression that 'if' the valve faces were worn to the point of necessitating a "refacing" process, then the corresponding seating surfaces in the head are really going to need more resultant effect than that which "lapping" would be able to provide.   

      Scott.

[MeanGene]

Nothing wrong with stone machines, just takes some maintenance. I have a Souix oil machine that came from a heavy equipment shop that was used for D7, D8 CAT stuff, so had a big supply of stones made up that were pretty close for my favorite performance engine. The other is a Black & Decker that came from a Harley shop and included a lot of cutters for trimming guides for seals etc, and a bunch of guide tooling. Got the Souix diamond stone trimmer with each, so pretty easy to make up stones for oddball sizes and seat angles

[cjshaker]

The valves are already ground and I plan on doing a slight lap . . . . .

      Now I'm not there, I don't have the parts in my hand, looking at them, but generally I would be of the impression that 'if' the valve faces were worn to the point of necessitating a "refacing" process, then the corresponding seating surfaces in the head are really going to need more resultant effect than that which "lapping" would be able to provide.   

      Scott.

Not everything has to be perfect. This sort of thing was commonplace years ago, and under the right circumstances, there's nothing wrong with it.

The 390 in my '65 Galaxie was untouched and had never been apart. When I was getting it ready for Drag Week 2018, I took it down to the shortblock to clean out all the sludge that had accumulated over the 53 years. Having taken the heads apart, several of the valves were pitted fairly badly...not uncommon. I simply ordered 3 new valves, lapped them in, and seeing there was a consistent mark around the seat and valve, put it back together....and drove it 1000 miles to Atlanta, then 1000 miles back. No issues, no excessive blow-by, and the engine still runs good today.

Could it be better? Yes. Is there anything wrong with the way it runs now? No. I saw no reason to spend $1k in totally redoing the heads for an otherwise original and stock engine. Sometimes "good enough" is good enough.

This valve was used...



This exhaust valve was replaced...

[pbf777]

Not everything has to be perfect. This sort of thing was commonplace years ago, and under the right circumstances, there's nothing wrong with it.

       Your are absolutely correct, everything doesn't have to perfect, but do realize otherwise, it is something less than!   

       And I did present the statement that suggested that one really needs to have the parts in hand and actually looking at them in order to determine what state they might be in, which then can be weighed against that of one's own level of acceptance might be.  But I think when inquired upon and we are attempting to outline the processes to be followed, we probably should be suggesting as close to "proper" as possible and then allow the individual to temper this to their own abilities and liking.     

      Scott.

      P.S. Just a note, this to "aid you" on "your effort":  Now I'm not there . . . . . . but of perhaps less than ideal, it looks like on the intake valve the seat contact surface "runs off" valve face, both intake & exhaust seating surfaces appear "sorta wide" not to mention "bad transitioning" with "no back-cut" on the valves nor additional angles "defining" the seat face angle in the cylinder heads.  Now there may be additional "concerns", but like I said, I'm not there and this is just what I noticed in glancing at your photos.   

   

[frnkeore]

While "good enough" is fine, you can increase flow with a 3 or 4 angle valve job.

This is what I did to my EDC E heads, with stones. A simple VJ but they will flow much better than just lapping the seats.

[cjshaker]

P.S. Just a note, this to "aid you" on "your effort":  Now I'm not there . . . . . . but of perhaps less than ideal, it looks like on the intake valve the seat contact surface "runs off" valve face, both intake & exhaust seating surfaces appear "sorta wide" not to mention "bad transitioning" with "no back-cut" on the valves nor additional angles "defining" the seat face angle in the cylinder heads.  Now there may be additional "concerns", but like I said, I'm not there and this is just what I noticed in glancing at your photos.   

   

And yet, after 7 years, the engine still runs perfectly fine. As always, you miss the point entirely. 

While "good enough" is fine, you can increase flow with a 3 or 4 angle valve job.

This is what I did to my EDC E heads, with stones. A simple VJ but they will flow much better than just lapping the seats.

I guess spending a $1000, or locating, buying and setting up a vintage valve grinding machine would have been a great deal to pick up .010 in the 1/4 on a bone stock car. Again, missing the point entirely.

But I have to ask; since flow was a concern of yours, why didn't you dress the bowls, or shape the guide bosses? All simple procedures with zero cost addition. Maybe good enough was good enough after all? 

[pbf777]

And yet, after 7 years, the engine still runs perfectly fine. 

      Although you may "feel" that it runs "perfectly fine", the point was that it obviously isn't running as well as it could!   

      But then, that may just be "good enough"!   

      Scott.

     

[frnkeore]

P.S. Just a note, this to "aid you" on "your effort":  Now I'm not there . . . . . . but of perhaps less than ideal, it looks like on the intake valve the seat contact surface "runs off" valve face, both intake & exhaust seating surfaces appear "sorta wide" not to mention "bad transitioning" with "no back-cut" on the valves nor additional angles "defining" the seat face angle in the cylinder heads.  Now there may be additional "concerns", but like I said, I'm not there and this is just what I noticed in glancing at your photos.   

   

And yet, after 7 years, the engine still runs perfectly fine. As always, you miss the point entirely. 

While "good enough" is fine, you can increase flow with a 3 or 4 angle valve job.

This is what I did to my EDC E heads, with stones. A simple VJ but they will flow much better than just lapping the seats.

I guess spending a $1000, or locating, buying and setting up a vintage valve grinding machine would have been a great deal to pick up .010 in the 1/4 on a bone stock car. Again, missing the point entirely.

But I have to ask; since flow was a concern of yours, why didn't you dress the bowls, or shape the guide bosses? All simple procedures with zero cost addition. Maybe good enough was good enough after all? 

Well......... I did but got to aggressive on the Ex bowl.