Author Topic: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine  (Read 6830 times)

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frnkeore

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2025, 02:30:14 PM »
Keep the CJ carb. The only basic difference is the primary boosters and they help with overall mileage and driveablity. The cfm reduction comes from the boosters being larger.

The Edel, overall is a much better head than the CJ head. The intake flows about 10 cfm better than the CJ but, the Edel, doesn't have the 2 ports, that are restricted because they have protrusions in them like the factory heads and the ex flows much better.

TFC heads flow much better BUT, while some say that the piston valve reliefs can work, no one will guarantee it. Basically it should not work, because the valve location is different and the valve is .100 larger. I think any that get away with it, do so, because the piston isn't high enough on overlap.

So, if you get a build done and your valves don't have enough clearance, it's another tear down and $1000+ in pistons and rings.

BTW, is the engine still in the car?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2025, 02:32:06 PM by frnkeore »
Frank

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Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

My427stang

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2025, 03:19:05 PM »
First of all, thanks to all for the replies!

My goal is 450 or so HP. More better, but not at the cost of drivability.

What roller cam/lifters? The long term goal is power brakes and 3.91 alxe ratio. The car has a 4 speed transmission.

I have a set of Hooker supercomps ceramic on my '66 gta. And, though difficult to get in there, seal excellent. The negative is how low they hang. I understand FPAs are better at tucked under. Dougs? I would love a sugg here.

The valves look good. I removed the exhaust valve to inspect. Looks completely stock. Old of course.

The RPM intake for sure. Thinking of a 780 VS Holley.

The car still has the stock distributor. Amazing.

Your goals are easy to do.  If you have a relationship with Brent, he'll cam you properly.  I do it too, but you mentioned talking to him and I'd stay stick with him if you are talking.  He, as would I, will ask you for some careful data to spec a cam, but it's worth it. Those that run the CJ circles have to solve the issue all the time, power brakes, parade-driving when needed, and haul the mail when asked.  Pretty easy combo and likely could sneak a bit more power out when you add the RPM intake. 

Cam brand is less important than understanding lobe design.  I have had great luck with Morel lifters, but spring setup is critical for any hyd roller.

Some plusses with Edelbrock heads, weight mostly, but significant minuses too, heavier valve train, spring package isn't great and wrong for an FE hyd roller, valve job and valves are nothing special for flow, guides can be tight.  If you sold your CJ heads, you could certainly modify new Edels to outperform CJs and save weight, but to out perform a set of CJ's prepped properly, it'll mean a modern valve job and spring package, adding to the cost, so an order from Summit won't cut it. 

FYI, in either head, prepped properly means valve seat angles and valves that work with those heads, in the CJ I would go lighter (and new/safe) 11/32 valves, bronze guides, and a matching spring package with spring cups and Viton seals, cut the deck and exhaust surface. With Edels I'd likely do a guide clearance check, work the seat and valve, and just make sure the spring package could handle the heavy 3/8 valve, they also tend to come in big, but regardless, in either head you need to complete them and calculate compression to get all you can out of the cam.

In the end, in some ways it makes the C8OE-N not too expensive and better than Edels out of the box (no assuming port work, just prep).

Frank isn't wrong about the TFS, depends on valve drop and available space, but my point wasn't to go with TFS, it was that the chamber and port of an Edelbrock ain't all that.  The TFS is much better, but I probably wouldn't bother unless you want to make even more power and willing to go inside.

Super Comps are excellent, and in most cases FPA headers are too, and slightly better for power.  My last set of FPAs on a customer's Torino  needed a little adjustment at the collectors.  Basically they sat a little wide and crowded the frame, easy fix though, long pipe in the header it self and a shove, they fit perfect. 

I also like the CJ carb, last all iron CJ I did was 486 HP on an 850, 476 on a stock CJ carb (iron head and CJ intake, no spacer, 229 duration cam with high vacuum and drivability).  However, if going new I would use a QFT HR780VS over a Holley, doesn't look stock but a great carb.  We just installed one on a customer's 66 428PI in a real police car (395-ish HP) and it's very happy and you get electric choke

The stock distributor is a good one, generally, I send them to Rockhouse Racing to be restored and while he is at it, add a steel gear for the HR cam.  He can do what they call the Tasca curve, which almost always works well with a stock head or the Edelbrock, certainly helps drivability and acceleration.
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Roberts Red GTA

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2025, 05:42:54 PM »
Keep the CJ carb. The only basic difference is the primary boosters and they help with overall mileage and driveablity. The cfm reduction comes from the boosters being larger.

The Edel, overall is a much better head than the CJ head. The intake flows about 10 cfm better than the CJ but, the Edel, doesn't have the 2 ports, that are restricted because they have protrusions in them like the factory heads and the ex flows much better.

TFC heads flow much better BUT, while some say that the piston valve reliefs can work, no one will guarantee it. Basically it should not work, because the valve location is different and the valve is .100 larger. I think any that get away with it, do so, because the piston isn't high enough on overlap.

So, if you get a build done and your valves don't have enough clearance, it's another tear down and $1000+ in pistons and rings.

BTW, is the engine still in the car?

Engine still in car. The car had a really expensive paint job and during this period the owner died. Tons of interior and exterior parts missing. I took a chance buying the car because of it being an actual R code, though not originally a SCJ.

I took #4 main cap off yesterday and confirmed it, too, looked excellent. According to the plasticgauge I used, It is about .002 clearance. I am ordering a set of rod bearings today along with some gaskets.

I don't know who to take the heads to if I decide to keep. I still like the aluminum ones, though I realize they are not Barry's heads (which I put on the '66 and like them a lot).

Also like the idea of aluminum for weight purposes. At 70 removing the cast iron intake myself was a job. 

Aluminum water pump, heads and intake will lighten the heavy front end up a bit for sure.

Roberts Red GTA

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2025, 05:50:19 PM »
First of all, thanks to all for the replies!

My goal is 450 or so HP. More better, but not at the cost of drivability.

What roller cam/lifters? The long term goal is power brakes and 3.91 alxe ratio. The car has a 4 speed transmission.

I have a set of Hooker supercomps ceramic on my '66 gta. And, though difficult to get in there, seal excellent. The negative is how low they hang. I understand FPAs are better at tucked under. Dougs? I would love a sugg here.

The valves look good. I removed the exhaust valve to inspect. Looks completely stock. Old of course.

The RPM intake for sure. Thinking of a 780 VS Holley.

The car still has the stock distributor. Amazing.

Your goals are easy to do.  If you have a relationship with Brent, he'll cam you properly.  I do it too, but you mentioned talking to him and I'd stay stick with him if you are talking.  He, as would I, will ask you for some careful data to spec a cam, but it's worth it. Those that run the CJ circles have to solve the issue all the time, power brakes, parade-driving when needed, and haul the mail when asked.  Pretty easy combo and likely could sneak a bit more power out when you add the RPM intake. 

Cam brand is less important than understanding lobe design.  I have had great luck with Morel lifters, but spring setup is critical for any hyd roller.

Some plusses with Edelbrock heads, weight mostly, but significant minuses too, heavier valve train, spring package isn't great and wrong for an FE hyd roller, valve job and valves are nothing special for flow, guides can be tight.  If you sold your CJ heads, you could certainly modify new Edels to outperform CJs and save weight, but to out perform a set of CJ's prepped properly, it'll mean a modern valve job and spring package, adding to the cost, so an order from Summit won't cut it. 

FYI, in either head, prepped properly means valve seat angles and valves that work with those heads, in the CJ I would go lighter (and new/safe) 11/32 valves, bronze guides, and a matching spring package with spring cups and Viton seals, cut the deck and exhaust surface. With Edels I'd likely do a guide clearance check, work the seat and valve, and just make sure the spring package could handle the heavy 3/8 valve, they also tend to come in big, but regardless, in either head you need to complete them and calculate compression to get all you can out of the cam.

In the end, in some ways it makes the C8OE-N not too expensive and better than Edels out of the box (no assuming port work, just prep).

Frank isn't wrong about the TFS, depends on valve drop and available space, but my point wasn't to go with TFS, it was that the chamber and port of an Edelbrock ain't all that.  The TFS is much better, but I probably wouldn't bother unless you want to make even more power and willing to go inside.

Super Comps are excellent, and in most cases FPA headers are too, and slightly better for power.  My last set of FPAs on a customer's Torino  needed a little adjustment at the collectors.  Basically they sat a little wide and crowded the frame, easy fix though, long pipe in the header it self and a shove, they fit perfect. 

I also like the CJ carb, last all iron CJ I did was 486 HP on an 850, 476 on a stock CJ carb (iron head and CJ intake, no spacer, 229 duration cam with high vacuum and drivability).  However, if going new I would use a QFT HR780VS over a Holley, doesn't look stock but a great carb.  We just installed one on a customer's 66 428PI in a real police car (395-ish HP) and it's very happy and you get electric choke

The stock distributor is a good one, generally, I send them to Rockhouse Racing to be restored and while he is at it, add a steel gear for the HR cam.  He can do what they call the Tasca curve, which almost always works well with a stock head or the Edelbrock, certainly helps drivability and acceleration.

I have the quickfuel carb on the '66 stroker and it is a good one along with Barry's heads which are great. I am still leaning to the Edel head for weight along with intake and water pump. At 70 taking that cast iron intake off was almost undoable alone.

And, I have only received a short email from Brent saying that a camshaft would yield 425HP with the rest left alone. So, need a sugg on camshaft.
Gear 3.91, 4 speed. Sugg?

My427stang

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2025, 07:13:44 AM »
There are some Howards cams that could work, but they leave quite a bit of power on the table.  A custom cam is the only way to fly. 

The right selection will take some measuring of the heads, deck height, compression calculation, discuss intended use, desired fuel, and finalizing all the parts, but aside from needing to know the resulting compression with Edelbrocks and the gasket choice...it's not a tough one to solve.

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

blykins

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2025, 07:17:10 AM »
First of all, thanks to all for the replies!

My goal is 450 or so HP. More better, but not at the cost of drivability.

What roller cam/lifters? The long term goal is power brakes and 3.91 alxe ratio. The car has a 4 speed transmission.

I have a set of Hooker supercomps ceramic on my '66 gta. And, though difficult to get in there, seal excellent. The negative is how low they hang. I understand FPAs are better at tucked under. Dougs? I would love a sugg here.

The valves look good. I removed the exhaust valve to inspect. Looks completely stock. Old of course.

The RPM intake for sure. Thinking of a 780 VS Holley.

The car still has the stock distributor. Amazing.

Your goals are easy to do.  If you have a relationship with Brent, he'll cam you properly.  I do it too, but you mentioned talking to him and I'd stay stick with him if you are talking.  He, as would I, will ask you for some careful data to spec a cam, but it's worth it. Those that run the CJ circles have to solve the issue all the time, power brakes, parade-driving when needed, and haul the mail when asked.  Pretty easy combo and likely could sneak a bit more power out when you add the RPM intake. 

Cam brand is less important than understanding lobe design.  I have had great luck with Morel lifters, but spring setup is critical for any hyd roller.

Some plusses with Edelbrock heads, weight mostly, but significant minuses too, heavier valve train, spring package isn't great and wrong for an FE hyd roller, valve job and valves are nothing special for flow, guides can be tight.  If you sold your CJ heads, you could certainly modify new Edels to outperform CJs and save weight, but to out perform a set of CJ's prepped properly, it'll mean a modern valve job and spring package, adding to the cost, so an order from Summit won't cut it. 

FYI, in either head, prepped properly means valve seat angles and valves that work with those heads, in the CJ I would go lighter (and new/safe) 11/32 valves, bronze guides, and a matching spring package with spring cups and Viton seals, cut the deck and exhaust surface. With Edels I'd likely do a guide clearance check, work the seat and valve, and just make sure the spring package could handle the heavy 3/8 valve, they also tend to come in big, but regardless, in either head you need to complete them and calculate compression to get all you can out of the cam.

In the end, in some ways it makes the C8OE-N not too expensive and better than Edels out of the box (no assuming port work, just prep).

Frank isn't wrong about the TFS, depends on valve drop and available space, but my point wasn't to go with TFS, it was that the chamber and port of an Edelbrock ain't all that.  The TFS is much better, but I probably wouldn't bother unless you want to make even more power and willing to go inside.

Super Comps are excellent, and in most cases FPA headers are too, and slightly better for power.  My last set of FPAs on a customer's Torino  needed a little adjustment at the collectors.  Basically they sat a little wide and crowded the frame, easy fix though, long pipe in the header it self and a shove, they fit perfect. 

I also like the CJ carb, last all iron CJ I did was 486 HP on an 850, 476 on a stock CJ carb (iron head and CJ intake, no spacer, 229 duration cam with high vacuum and drivability).  However, if going new I would use a QFT HR780VS over a Holley, doesn't look stock but a great carb.  We just installed one on a customer's 66 428PI in a real police car (395-ish HP) and it's very happy and you get electric choke

The stock distributor is a good one, generally, I send them to Rockhouse Racing to be restored and while he is at it, add a steel gear for the HR cam.  He can do what they call the Tasca curve, which almost always works well with a stock head or the Edelbrock, certainly helps drivability and acceleration.

I have the quickfuel carb on the '66 stroker and it is a good one along with Barry's heads which are great. I am still leaning to the Edel head for weight along with intake and water pump. At 70 taking that cast iron intake off was almost undoable alone.

And, I have only received a short email from Brent saying that a camshaft would yield 425HP with the rest left alone. So, need a sugg on camshaft.
Gear 3.91, 4 speed. Sugg?

When you figure out which way you want to go, I can look at the specs for you.  Everything changes everything, so if you change cylinder heads, the cam specs change. 

I've made an easy 425-430 hp with all stock CJ components and have made about 450-460 with a 428, C6AE-R heads, BT PI intake, etc. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Roberts Red GTA

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2025, 03:02:08 PM »
Just wanted everyone to know how much I appreciated your help.

In the end Barry was only 45 minutes away. I had contacted him abt a week ago and he spec'd a complete rebuild. So, I went over to his place and he confirmed that the bottom end looked pretty good. Told me that the bearings were looking good.

I respect his help and decided on Trick Flow heads, HS rockers, hyd roller cam and lifters. Similar to the build I did on my '66 GTA. I wanted a milder cam, but am sold on roller assby.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

6667fan

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Re: Questions about restoring 428 scj engine
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2025, 01:56:52 PM »
That paint is jumping! Nice
JB


67 Fairlane 500
482 cid 636/619.
Tunnel Wedge, Survival EMC CNC heads, Lykins Custom Hydraulic Roller, Ram adjustable clutch, Jerico 4-spd, Strange third member with Detroit Locker, 35 spline axles, 4.86
10.55@125.74 1.46 60’