Author Topic: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?  (Read 2144 times)

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Sidebite

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Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« on: June 14, 2025, 04:12:51 PM »
I'm interested in aggregating information about what fuel system people are running with their FE engines. Mechanical pumps, electric pumps, fancy belt driven options... what are you running and how have the results been?

I've been looking at the Aeromotive P/N 11213: SS Series Billet Fuel Pump - ORB-08 pump which claims to run 140 GPH and supply 14psi while drawing less than 5amps. I know RobbMc makes a mechanical pump for high HP FE engines, but it takes some grinding to fit in the needed location.

What are you using and why?

blykins

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2025, 06:35:31 PM »
I personally like the electric pumps.  I like being able to fill fuel bowls with a switch, or being able to cut fuel with a switch. 

When you’re dealing with higher horsepower levels, there are fewer pumps that can support that.  You mentioned the RobbMc pump, but they don’t fit a lot of applications without grinding. 

New 1 piece eccentrics are pretty much impossible to find. 

Be careful if you do choose an electric pumps.  14psi is way too high for a carb setup without a regulator. 
Brent Lykins
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GerryP

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2025, 07:33:47 PM »
I run an electric back by the fuel tank and a mechanical on the engine.  Yes, the electric pump works just fine along with the mechanical pump and the mechanical pump works fine with the electric..  I mostly use the electric pump to get fuel in the bowls when I haven't run the engine in a while.

Jb427

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2025, 07:38:01 PM »
I run an Areomotive A1000 pump they are silent and can give you all the flow and pressure you could want for carb or efi gas or e85

Sidebite

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2025, 10:27:57 PM »
JB427, which version of the A1000 are you using? Is it mounted in tank or outside somewhere? One of the things that makes fuel systems confusing is the huge range of options, they make a half dozen variations of the A1000 for example. Are you running a controller with it?

Jb427

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2025, 01:00:34 AM »
JB427, which version of the A1000 are you using? Is it mounted in tank or outside somewhere? One of the things that makes fuel systems confusing is the huge range of options, they make a half dozen variations of the A1000 for example. Are you running a controller with it?

https://aeromotiveinc.com/products/brushless-in-line-a1000-fuel-pump-with-tvs-controller

That is the pump I use.
My fuel tank is custom made I have mine mounted just in front of my tank.
I run carbs so no speed controller that is more for efi set up.
I just use areomotive regulator for twin carbs.
It is not a cheap setup but after using it I would never go back when I had some thing that required electric pump

jayb

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2025, 08:26:42 AM »
For carbed setups I usually run a Mallory 140 gph electric pump back at the tank, either with or without the mechanical pump at the engine.  Also I ALWAYS run a return line and use a return style fuel pressure regulator, if I am going to be running with pump gas.  This keeps the fuel circulating so that it doesn't get hot sitting in the fuel line, and boil as soon as it hits the carb's float bowls.  A while back I tested the boiling temperature of the local 93 octane unleaded fuel, and it was only 155 degrees F.  If it gets above that in the car it boils as soon as it hits the float bowl, spits out of the Holley vents, and floods the engine, stalling the car or making it nearly impossible to start.  Seen that many, many times, most recently with my 69 Cobra, which I have not yet fitted with a return line and return-style pressure regulator.  Very frustrating to stop the car, go into the convenience store, come back out and not be able to get it started because fuel is pouring into the engine.

For EFI I always use an Aeromotive pump and regulator, either an A1000 or an Eliminator pump.  I have been using Aeromotive pumps for 15+ years, but my long term experience with them has been that they will fail on occasion; I've had to change an A1000 pump on the side of the road during one Drag Week event, and I had another one fail during dyno testing.  Overall they are pretty good pumps, and I mount them externally so they are available for service if necessary.  I use shutoff valves before the pumps, usually an Aeromotive inlet filter with the built in valve, in case the pump has to come off. 
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Jb427

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2025, 08:37:45 AM »
+1 on running return system I also run mine with a oil pressure switch

Sidebite

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2025, 11:54:41 AM »
This site must be the most civilized and knowledgeable group of car people on the internet, I do appreciate the experience and thoughtful responses from the experts here.

Here is some general information for future people who might be searching this out. I've searched out quite a bit of this and figured I would compile some notes here.

Calculating Fuel "Mass Flow Rate" Requirements for Engine

Step 1: Assume a Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) Value

This is based on your engine's fuel efficiency, it is the amount of fuel the engine will consume to make 1 HP. Unless you have specific test data, it will be necessary to make an assumption here based on an approximate range typically between 0.5 and 0.6 pounds of fuel per horsepower-hour [ lb / (hp*hr) ].

Step 2: Calculate Mass Flow Rate for Fuel at Peak Horsepower based on BSFC

Mass Flow Rate of Fuel = Peak Horsepower * BSFC

For a general example, assume 700 HP peak and BSFC = 0.6. The mass flow rate of fuel would be equal to 700*0.6=420 lbs/hr.

Step 3: Convert Mass Flow Rate (lbs/hr) into Volume (Gallons/Hour) Based on the Density of Fuel

Assume a ballpark density for gasoline of 6.07 pounds per gallon.

GPH = Fuel Mass Flow Rate / Fuel Density

GPH = 420 / 6.07 = 69.2 GPH

Step 4: Add a Factor of Safety to the GPH

The factory of safety is based on personal preference, but you would ideally want a pump with some extra head room. For example, in the case of a system plumbed with a return line you would ideally want the pump to supply enough flow rate to the engine at peak power while also keeping the return line full.

Let's assume a factory of safety equal to 1.2 here.

GPH = GPH * 1.2 = 69.2 * 1.2 = 83 GPH

With this information you can start shopping for pumps.

Step 5: Not All Pumps are Created Equal

This is where things get confusing and the information at various websites is conflicting or incomplete. The most important aspects here are the pump's ability to handle "dry lift", the "pump pressure and volume curve", and "current draw".

Pump Curves

Each pump will have its own curve dictating what volume it can supply at a given pressure. This is a lot like an engine dyno run, any given fuel pump will only be able to supply a certain amount of flow volume at a given pressure rating. Typically a Holley carburetor wants 7 psi at idle and at least 4 psi at wide open throttle. The pump makers will let the marketing department fudge this all up, and advertise the highest flow rate even if it is nonsensical in practice. If possible, try to track down the actual pump curve or select something with lots of extra margin based on the numbers they provide. Don't just assume a pump rated for XYZ gallons per hour will run your XYZ gallons per hour engine at the desired fuel pressure. Trust by verify as Regan said.

Dry Lift Suction

Dry lift is also important, because the pump might need to handle a little dry suction in order to get the fluid flowing from the tank. This is where all the internet bench racers keep repeating the phrase, "mount the pump close to the tank and near the bottom of the fluid level". It is generally good advice, but it isn't the final answer. When building a car, you know there is a constant battle to package everything and never enough room where you want to mount stuff. Some pumps suck, they don't mind pulling fuel up a vertical lift. You might have a case where the pump is near the bottom of the tank, but it has to suck the fuel over a bump to establish a siphon effect before it will start flowing. For a particular application, you might need to mount the pump above the tank a bit. Lots of pumps can handle a decent dry lift height if you're shopping for that. Lots of pumps might advertise themselves as "self priming" to let the end user know they can handle a dry start by providing some suction to get things going.

Current Draw

Current draw is also an important parameter, the Ford 1G alternator used on FE engines isn't very impressive. Lots of people will convert over to a 3G alternator or use a high output 1-wire "1G" alternator to make more juice. All these current draw sources add up. You might not notice it right away, because the battery is acting like a giant electrical buffer. The battery is masking the low output from the alternator by covering for the deficit. Lots of guys put their weekend car on a battery tender in-between drives. If you do a bunch of short around town trips, and keep the battery topped off with a 110v wall plug in device, then a corner case might arise on a longer road trip because the battery buffer runs dry and the alternator isn't keeping up over the long run. Keep an eye on the total electrical demands.

Check Valves and Pull Through

Various pumps will also include check valves and shut off mechanisms. The check valves prevent back flow of fuel from the pump to the tank when the pump is off. This is useful for keeping the pump primed with fuel. It can also help with dry lift abilities, so the pump isn't working against gravity if it is providing suction in a "pulsing" mode. Another pump feature is a shut off valve, some pumps are equipped with the ability to shut off all fuel flow through them when the pump is not running. In this case, you can't "pull through" the pump with another pump. Imagine an electrical pump feeding mechanical pump. If you want to prime the fuel system with the electrical pump, then shut it off and run the car from the mechanical pump, you'll need to select an electric pump with the ability to pull fuel through it while it is de-energized.

Parallel and Series Pumping

Pumps can be staged in parallel to provide more mass flow rate, or in series to accomplish a pressure boost. It really depends on the specific application and pump, but these types of layout are all possible. Perhaps you have one pump feeding a swirl pot from the main tank, and a second pump pulling fuel from the swirl pot to the engine. Maybe you need two smaller electrical pumps in parallel to provide the mass flow rate needed to supply the engine.

Electric Pump Controllers

You can use a simple toggle switch or a logic device to power the pump. In more extreme cases, you might have a pump run by PWM (pulse width modulation) which sends 12V power in pulses to the pump in order to control its flow rate. A simple pump controller is sold by Revolution Electronics under the 12003 part number. It is on Amazon and eBay. This controller will turn the electric pump on for 3 seconds to prime the system with key on. It also has an input from the tach to shut the pump down if the engine turns off. The controller can trigger a relay for high current pumps, or directly control a lower current pump. In some cases, folks use an oil pressure switch to shut the electric pump off if the engine cuts out. This is a useful safety measure, you don't want the pump running full tilt in an emergency situation.

Electric Pump Mechanical Design

From what I have found, there are three common types of mechanical designs used with electric powered pumps. These are

1. Rotary Vane
2. Gerotor
3. Solenoid Powered Plunger Pumps

Each of these pumps has different characteristics which might make it more desirable for one application or another.

Traditional Mechanical Pumps

These generally run out of pumping capacity for high HP engines. Things start to get suspect for mechanical pumps when you're making over 450HP or so. Over time there have been a number of high performance mechanical pumps which have come and gone. The FE engine has a hard time accommodating a big mechanical pump without some grinding, which is no fun on your fancy high dollar new pump. RobbMc seems to be the best source of high HP mechanical pumps these days, but expect to do some grinding.

Other Pumps

If you're running methanol or E85 with a high HP engine, the mass flow rate might require a belt driven pump. These are a bit more exotic and expensive, something like two spur gears running off a belt to pump large volumes.

Tommy-T

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2025, 05:25:34 PM »
I run the Holley in tank module that mounts in most fuel cells in direct replacement of the fuel cell fill. Simple installation and a 340gph pump. Works fine with my carbureted return pressure regulator and is supposed to work with efi if an appropriate  regulator is used.
It comes with #10an outlet and #8 return but I have it stepped down to #8 with #6 return. Pressures are rock solid.

Quite frankly, the old Holley blue pump has powered many 10 second hot rods reliably with a dead head blue regulator. Yes, it is noisy and it sounds like it's eating itself but I bet a lot of old farts here have run them with no trouble. I do suggest a return regulator.

Rory428

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2025, 09:52:09 PM »
Tommy, 100% correct about the old Holley GPH 110 "Blue" electric fuel pumps. I have been racing my 78 Fairmont since 1988, and even after almost 40 years, I am running the same Holley Blue pump on it. Yeah, it`s noisy, but I can`t hear it over the open headers anyhow.
That said, depending on the application, I like running a mechanical fuel pump on a N/A street car. Even the much quieter old type Carter electric fuel make some noise and vibration. On my street /strip 428 powered 59, I have been running a Carter mechanical fuel pump that looks almost exactly like the factory 428 CJ , and has been working fine for over 5 years now. Likely not up to a 700 HP engine, but the OP never mentioned what his application is.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

My427stang

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2025, 10:06:19 AM »
I loved the old blue pumps, nearly indestructible.  I will tell you, some modern pumps are even louder, I don't consider those horrible.

I like in tank pumps for EFI, a decent Carter or Edelbrock for mechanical carbed
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Ross
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- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

66FAIRLANE

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2025, 08:13:08 PM »
Used to run a blue when I was carbed. Super hot day, tooling around slow, it started making weirder noises than usual but I limped home. The magnet glue had let go. Glued them back on the case with high temp silicon and the thing ran for years after that. Used to pull it apart every once and a while for a clean out though, just in case.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2025, 08:15:29 PM by 66FAIRLANE »

cjshaker

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Re: Fuel Pumps - Mechanical / Electrical - What do you Run?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2025, 10:47:21 PM »
A cheap syringe and 10 seconds will fill the bowls on any Holley before it's fired up. Just shoot it down the vents.

I never saw the need to add the complexity of an electric on anything carbureted under 500+ HP. As Rory said, a standard Carter works on anything close to stock or mild. I've been running the same Edelbrock on my 2x4 427 for close to 30 years now. An honest 500 HP that gets track use, and never had a fuel delivery issue. Keeping the line up off the intake, and in the airflow of the fan, helps a bunch with boiling, which I've never had issues with, even in a cramped Mustang engine bay on 90* days during Drag Week. Just my experience though.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe