462 Street build

[Dyno]

Performance Summary:
      Cubic Inches:   462            Dyno brand: Superflow
      Power Adder: N/A              Where dynoed: CTS Ridgely, MD
      Peak Horsepower: 447 @ 5495
      Peak Torque: 540 @ 3180

Horsepower and Torque Curves:


Engine Specifications:
   Block brand, material, finished bore size, other notes: C scratch  4.160
     
   Crankshaft brand, cast or forged, stroke, journal size: Cast, Eagle, 4.25"
     
   Connecting Rods brand, material, center to center distance, end sizes, bolts: Eagle I beam 6.700"

   Piston brand, material (caster, hypereutectic or forged), dish/dome volume, static CR: Mahle, Forged, -7 cc flat , 11.1

   Main Bearings, Rod Bearings, Cam Bearings brand and size: MS-685P, CB-743P

   Piston rings brand, size, other notes: Mahle, 1mm,1mm, 2mm

   Oil Pump, pickup, and drive: Stock, Milodon 18370, HD drive

   Oil pan, windage tray, oil filter adapter: Milodon 31130

   Camshaft brand, type (hyd/solid, flat tappet or roller), lift and duration (adv and @.050")  Bullet, Hyd. Roller, part # 505000, 293/303 Adv, 242/248 @.050 .605/.616, 108* c/l,  104 ICL

   Lifters brand, type: Morrel, hyd roller

   Timing chain and timing cover: Cloyes true roller, factory cover

   Cylinder heads brand, material, port and chamber information: Ed knockoff, Aluminum

   Cylinder head flow in cfm at inches of lift (28" H2O pressure drop):
      Intake               Exhaust
      .100   63             .100   52
      .200   144            .200  96 Turbulant
      .300   173            .300  135
      .400   227           .400   174
      .500   255            .500  195
      .600   267            .600  207
      .700   277            .700  N/A
      .800   N/A            .800  N/A

   Flow bench used, location:  Superflow, CTS Ridgely,Md

   Intake valve brand, head size, stem size:  Manley cut down to 2.190",  11/32", +.250" tip

   Exhaust valve brand, head size, stem size:  Manley 1.900", 11/32", + .250" tip
   
   Valve springs brand, part number, specs:   Manley, 22406, 1.875" inst. @ 125lbs.

   Retainers and locks brand, part number, specs: Manley, 23636-16, Manley 13194-16

   Rocker arm brand, type (adjustable or non-adj), material, ratio:  Harland, Adj. , AL, 1.76

   Rocker shafts and stands, brand, material: Harland

   Pushrods brand, type, length: Smith Bros. 8.400. ball&cup

   Valve covers, brand, type: Factory chrome

   Distributor brand, advance curve information:  MSD

   Harmonic balancer brand: ATI

   Water pump brand, type (mechanical or electric): Mr Gasket, Mech.

   Intake manifold brand, material, porting information: RPM Knockoff

   Carburetor(s) brand, type :  Holley Service replacement U carb

   Exhaust manifolds or headers brand, type:  Dougs Headers

[My427stang]

Thanks for sharing your details, if I could throw some unrequested feedback, just sharing some of the things I have seen

1 - Something is odd with the dyno run as the curves don't cross at 5252 if I am reading them correctly. 
2 - I'd add some spring pressure, although the curve doesn't seem to die off, it almost has to be and the way the a/f got weird maybe it did and the curve didn't show it.  125 seat is too soft, we usually do 155-175 depending on valve and ramp to prevent bounce and I like to see 390+open
3 - I'd likely put that cam at 108 ICL, you'll have no shortage of torque and although I didn't run the numbers, it'd likely be happier
4 - Once you have the valvetrain in control, lean that old girl up.  Lean is mean, more power there too, and it'll likely want a little more timing then too

With the cam and combo, I'd expect that engine to making 500 hp and carrying higher.

Neat combo, bet it sounds wicked, but I think you have quite a bit more in there

[thatdarncat]

Thanks for sharing your details, if I could throw some unrequested feedback, just sharing some of the things I have seen

1 - Something is odd with the dyno run as the curves don't cross at 5252 if I am reading them correctly. 

The graph is using two different scales, horsepower on the left, and torque on the right. Since the scales are different (location up & down of the numbers) it throws the combined graphs off. I’ve seen it a few times, especially in magazines. Not sure why the software developers do that, other than maybe trying to get the graph “fit” in a smaller area. 

[My427stang]

Thanks for sharing your details, if I could throw some unrequested feedback, just sharing some of the things I have seen

1 - Something is odd with the dyno run as the curves don't cross at 5252 if I am reading them correctly. 

The graph is using two different scales, horsepower on the left, and torque on the right. Since the scales are different (location up & down of the numbers) it throws the combined graphs off. I’ve seen it a few times, especially in magazines. Not sure why the software developers do that, other than maybe trying to get the graph “fit” in a smaller area.

Interesting, the dynos I use don't display it like that.

[Joe-JDC]

How on earth did you get a 1.900" exhaust valve in the chamber?  Joe-JDC

[My427stang]

How on earth did you get a 1.900" exhaust valve in the chamber?  Joe-JDC

Good catch

[blykins]

Spring loads scare me.   125 lbs seat is flat tappet spring load. 

[Dyno]

Thanks for the comments . I'll try and answer stuff here.
 Graph think that was answered pretty well already, thanks. Don't know why they do it and didn't ask what software my buddy uses. Says the guy answers the calls no matter what time day or night he calls, developer somewhere in Europe ( i think).
 The testing day was not the kind of day you would like to see, setting at about 62 ft and corrected air was around 2700 ft. Lots of anti detonation !! read high humidity.
 Do I consider springs soft? Yes I thought we would be higher on seat, he feels we have it good wouldn't want to go much higher. For me that's a decent flat tappet pressure. Not intending to wing this one out short shift will be where it lives. Street car not race car.
 AFR was showing mid high 11's so yes she can be leaned out and pickup some more HP. Will adjust this in the car to see what she wants.
 The exhaust valve I put size down that we bought, not sure what size it was cut down to. We had bought bigger valves for intake (2.25") and cut them down to 2.190". Sure you guys understand reasons to do this type of stuff. When I ground the valves after he had cut them down and I did the valve seats in the heads it was just using dividers and a gauge to set the heights. First I had done in over 30 years, damn when I got away from it i really got away. At one time I was engines/cars 24/7 .
 Ports only flow 260 cfm so while there is still some power left to get don't believe there is a lot. Part of this is my bad as when heads were all apart we just couldn't get together so the porting just didn't happen. I was looking forward to "playing" on the flow bench and has been a long time since that "tingly" feeling in the hands was there. Besides they are the knockoff heads always fun to see what you can get out of that stuff. Can you hurt them? Weld it up.
 The shop is about 2 hours south of me and I went there as it is an old Boss now friend. That was late 80's thru early 90's that we worked together. Moving forward to now and Dyno day started with mapping out a area in his shop for me to move the machine shop that I manage and am looking at buying. So lots on the mind. 
 Ask away and I will answer. If I missed something hit me up.
 

[blykins]

The hp is about what I would expect for something with that combination.  The cam is on the large side of things and eventually you get to a point where you can keep adding duration, but you don't really see a lot of gains from it because the heads don't work.   As a comparison, I usually see about 550 hp from a 445 with TFS heads, with a cam that's about 11° in duration smaller.

I would very seriously look at valve springs though.  Eventually, the lifters/valves will get enough of being pounded to death and something will break.  Usually it's an exhaust valve head that will break off.  120-125 lbs seat is nowhere near enough for an FE valve and an aggressive cam lobe.  If it were a SBF with ~100 gram valves, I might think differently, but not with an FE.

[My427stang]

Thanks for the comments . I'll try and answer stuff here.
 Graph think that was answered pretty well already, thanks. Don't know why they do it and didn't ask what software my buddy uses. Says the guy answers the calls no matter what time day or night he calls, developer somewhere in Europe ( i think).
 The testing day was not the kind of day you would like to see, setting at about 62 ft and corrected air was around 2700 ft. Lots of anti detonation !! read high humidity.
 Do I consider springs soft? Yes I thought we would be higher on seat, he feels we have it good wouldn't want to go much higher. For me that's a decent flat tappet pressure. Not intending to wing this one out short shift will be where it lives. Street car not race car.
 AFR was showing mid high 11's so yes she can be leaned out and pickup some more HP. Will adjust this in the car to see what she wants.
 The exhaust valve I put size down that we bought, not sure what size it was cut down to. We had bought bigger valves for intake (2.25") and cut them down to 2.190". Sure you guys understand reasons to do this type of stuff. When I ground the valves after he had cut them down and I did the valve seats in the heads it was just using dividers and a gauge to set the heights. First I had done in over 30 years, damn when I got away from it i really got away. At one time I was engines/cars 24/7 .
 Ports only flow 260 cfm so while there is still some power left to get don't believe there is a lot. Part of this is my bad as when heads were all apart we just couldn't get together so the porting just didn't happen. I was looking forward to "playing" on the flow bench and has been a long time since that "tingly" feeling in the hands was there. Besides they are the knockoff heads always fun to see what you can get out of that stuff. Can you hurt them? Weld it up.
 The shop is about 2 hours south of me and I went there as it is an old Boss now friend. That was late 80's thru early 90's that we worked together. Moving forward to now and Dyno day started with mapping out a area in his shop for me to move the machine shop that I manage and am looking at buying. So lots on the mind. 
 Ask away and I will answer. If I missed something hit me up.

11:1, that cam, the valves in control, and running closer to 12.5:1, I think you will see significant gains in power and the peak RPM will shift higher, as Brent pointed out, not TFS numbers, but I bet that engine will pull to 6000 and make 480-490-ish.  Yes, 260 cfm heads fight back, but I think there is more in there. 

Also, with all respect to your friend...if you really are at 125 closed, I recommend you jump back in, I do not think he is right.  A Morel is pretty tough, but I have seen other brands break link bars with higher seat pressures than you see.  I thought I saved pictures of a 428 PI with 130/320, can't find them but I will look

ON EDIT:  It wasn't a PI that had the failed lifter bars it was an all iron CJ, and here is what I found under the intake.  Seat pressure was around 130, but all over the map, and open was low but not horrible.  I don't love Comp lifters, the bar is weaker, but if the valves were in control this wouldn't have happened

BTW, just as a repeat after playing with some numbers, that cam is stout at 82 degrees of overlap, generally considered a whole lot...

I'd do the springs, 175/420-ish notch the divider and a little blending on the roof of the plenum and lower plane short turn if it's sharp, put the cam at 108 ICL, might like a cooler plug depending where you are, lean it up, give it some timing and let her eat.   Would be nice to see another round of dyno as I spend your time and money

[frnkeore]

Ross, the reason the tq & hp lines don't cross at 5252, is that the scales are different on hp and tq for both.

It's hard to do on that picture but, if you draw a vertical line at ~5250 on the rpm scale, you'll see that the tq and hp look the same.

[My427stang]

Ross, the reason the tq & hp lines don't cross at 5252, is that the scales are different on hp and tq for both.

It's hard to do on that picture but, if you draw a vertical line at ~5250 on the rpm scale, you'll see that the tq and hp look the same.

Thanks, they already pointed it out to me on post 3. 

[blykins]

Hey Ross, the reason that the curves don't cross at 5252 is because each axis is on a different scale.


 

[My427stang]

Hey Ross, the reason that the curves don't cross at 5252 is because each axis is on a different scale.


 

I knew it'd come LOL

[Stangman]

I don’t know if it’s just me but is the oil pressure a little low at 5500 or so in the lower right graph?