Author Topic: Puzzle Time  (Read 1334 times)

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Diogenes

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Puzzle Time
« on: June 11, 2024, 07:19:09 PM »
I had previously assumed I had a timing jump during a moderately heavy-ish run over the weekend. I had to have the Galaxie brought home on a flatbed, the first time in the 10 years I've owned it--bummer.

I left a stop sign under fairly heavy throttle, not to the floor, but I was getting into that neighborhood. Going through the gears was fine, but went into 4th, probably in the 4000-4500rpm range, and all of a sudden the car fell on its face, big loss of power but still running. It was still screaming out the pipes, but it sounded very labored and "not right", like I dropped a cylinder or two. It happeded at around 70-75MPH. I dropped down to around 50, still running but "not good". Checked gauges--oil was still 50-55psi, but coolant temp was getting hot--210 and climbing. No smoke, no unusal noises except out of the exhaust. Had to slow for a stop sign at an intersection, but was able to roll through, trying to keep momentum going--it didn't want to idle and had to keep goosing the throttle (I was only 5 miles from home). On the other side of the intersection it became clear I wouldn't make it home--temp was over 220 and I shut it down.

Upon getting home, I thought the rotor in the cap was off from where it should be, but I may have mis-read that. I pulled off the timing cover with the engine at TDC and my marks are lined up--no timing jump. Gears and chain look good. Rotor a bit off, but probably correct/near correct for my 16deg initial. Pulled the distributor--it looks good. I'm at a loss here. I was running a bit lean, but not to the extreme. Instant power loss and overheating sent me to look at timing, but it seems OK. Fuel pump working. I'm leaning in the direction of ignition problems, but still at the brain-storming phase--Any thoughts?

It has a Pertronix in it, anyone ever have one fail under load?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 08:03:58 PM by Diogenes »
WHEN CRIMINALS MAKE THE LAWS, OBEYING THE LAW IS A CRIME.

1966 Galaxie 500 390 Toploader 3.89 Traction-Lock 9in.
1985 Toyota Celica Supra
1971 Montego MX wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker Cyclone competition gauge/dash bucket seats/console
1989 Texas DPS Police Mustang
1971 Torino GT 351C 4V AT
1968 Cougar 351W Toploader Traction-Lock 8in.
1989 Dodge Omni modified 2.5 turbo from hell

Jb427

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2024, 08:42:42 PM »
I wonder if it sucked a bit of trash into the carb or fuel filter when you gave it a boot full of gas? Was your radiator still full with water? or did it push a bunch out into an overflow or on the ground?

Diogenes

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2024, 08:49:32 PM »
The overflow has a relief hole in the top, and it blew a bunch out. Car wouldn't start back up, popped out the carb once.

I first looked at my valve springs, since I recently replaced a broken spring. All looked OK.

Wondering about head gasket as well, compression into coolant? I'm still leaning on timing and ignition, but a compression test/leakdown may be in the near future.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 08:52:38 PM by Diogenes »
WHEN CRIMINALS MAKE THE LAWS, OBEYING THE LAW IS A CRIME.

1966 Galaxie 500 390 Toploader 3.89 Traction-Lock 9in.
1985 Toyota Celica Supra
1971 Montego MX wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker Cyclone competition gauge/dash bucket seats/console
1989 Texas DPS Police Mustang
1971 Torino GT 351C 4V AT
1968 Cougar 351W Toploader Traction-Lock 8in.
1989 Dodge Omni modified 2.5 turbo from hell

galaxiex

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2024, 09:29:45 PM »
Cam dowel sheared off?
Every 20 minute job is 1 broken bolt away from becoming a 3 day ordeal.

Stangman

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2024, 10:16:44 PM »
Hmm pull some plugs and read them see if any anti freeze on them or a tinge of green. How does it idle is it missing or running rough.

Jb427

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2024, 10:46:15 PM »
The overflow has a relief hole in the top, and it blew a bunch out. Car wouldn't start back up, popped out the carb once.

I first looked at my valve springs, since I recently replaced a broken spring. All looked OK.

Wondering about head gasket as well, compression into coolant? I'm still leaning on timing and ignition, but a compression test/leakdown may be in the near future.

I was more just trying to think of why it got so hot all of a sudden

Galaxiex could be onto somthing with the cam dowel.


Diogenes

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2024, 04:12:08 AM »
Plugs are fine, show a little lean, but that's it. Cam dowel fine--dots on gears still lined up.
WHEN CRIMINALS MAKE THE LAWS, OBEYING THE LAW IS A CRIME.

1966 Galaxie 500 390 Toploader 3.89 Traction-Lock 9in.
1985 Toyota Celica Supra
1971 Montego MX wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker Cyclone competition gauge/dash bucket seats/console
1989 Texas DPS Police Mustang
1971 Torino GT 351C 4V AT
1968 Cougar 351W Toploader Traction-Lock 8in.
1989 Dodge Omni modified 2.5 turbo from hell

66FAIRLANE

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2024, 04:15:22 AM »
You said you pulled dizzy and looked fine. But if the drive pin sheared it would still look ok. This would usually result in the dizzy not spinning at all (ask me how I know) but maybe it sheared and somehow picked up in a few degrees? Just grasping at stuff.

Diogenes

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2024, 04:26:15 AM »
You said you pulled dizzy and looked fine. But if the drive pin sheared it would still look ok. This would usually result in the dizzy not spinning at all (ask me how I know) but maybe it sheared and somehow picked up in a few degrees? Just grasping at stuff.

After seeing the timing gears being fine, this was exactly what I thought, so I pulled the distributor, but all appears to be fine there as well. I'm focused on a timing event being the cause, but this may be an incorrect assumption.
WHEN CRIMINALS MAKE THE LAWS, OBEYING THE LAW IS A CRIME.

1966 Galaxie 500 390 Toploader 3.89 Traction-Lock 9in.
1985 Toyota Celica Supra
1971 Montego MX wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker Cyclone competition gauge/dash bucket seats/console
1989 Texas DPS Police Mustang
1971 Torino GT 351C 4V AT
1968 Cougar 351W Toploader Traction-Lock 8in.
1989 Dodge Omni modified 2.5 turbo from hell

Heo

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2024, 04:32:54 AM »
Compression test and try another dist. or put a set of point in this
one and test if the pertronix failed



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

1964Fastback

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2024, 05:35:28 AM »
It didn't throw the fan belt at high RPM, did it?

Pat
1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana

rockhouse66

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2024, 06:09:58 AM »
I agree with 66FAIRLANE.  Look more closely at the distributor gear and the pin.  I had one shear and then lock in a new position on the shaft.  Same symptoms.
Jim

GerryP

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2024, 07:26:44 AM »
I'd be looking for a severe vacuum leak.  Split hose, or hose off, or cracked nipple.  Carburetor firmly bolted down.  That sort of stuff.  Reason being is that a mixture that goes lean will cause a slow burn and that heats the exhaust port which causes overheating. 

pbf777

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2024, 11:47:41 AM »
     In instances such as this always start with the basics and begin to systematically rule possibilities either in or out, and start with the big stuff first!   ;)

     Start with a compression & leak-down test............ yes both!   :)

     Scott.

FrozenMerc

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Re: Puzzle Time
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2024, 11:47:49 AM »
I have seen failed head gaskets cause all sorts of wonky symptoms (former Subaru owner...).  Perhaps, it burned through hard enough on one or two cylinders to force combustion gases into the coolant, giving you the illusion of overheating, but also draws coolant in during the intake stroke, essentially quenching any combustion and giving you the loss of power.

Combustion and Leak Down like the others were saying.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 11:31:47 AM by FrozenMerc »