390 sled puller build

[BH107]

Then again the machining cost for all of that work on a 40 year old crank would just about buy a new Scat crank too. You would actually be getting a complete stroker kit then, and the packaging discounts that come with that, of course adjusting the cost for the custom pistons.

Sounds like a really fun project.

[FEsledpuller]

Haha nice. That definitely makes sense to go with a common BBC rod. It probably would even be cheaper buying a Chevy rod and machining vs what a forged h beam FE rod would cost. I have a machinist buddy who happens to owe me some favors so the machining part is no issue. I guess he would be able to tell what kind of custom pistons I would need?

I also need some recommendations on what clutch to use in the 4 speed behind this motor

[bluef100fe]

Problem with a aftermarket crank that is already machined is you can't custom tailor the stroke to land the displacement exactly where it needs to be.... I think a 0.040 over 352 block and a custom 3.95 stroke crank with BBC rod journals will get you rite at 408. This would be a really neat project. Plenty of different length rods to choose from. Hell using a 352 block you can probably find a dome sbc piston 0.040 over with the correct compression height to make it all fit.  The last custom stroke stock cast crank I had done was $500 with bull nosing and knife edging, shipped to my door and that included the core. Can't buy a stroker crank for that.
Clutch needs to be a pretty stout piece as well or your gonna get really good at changing them.  I would a single disc sintered iron or button clutch with a sfi steel flywheel and skattershield. Hope this helps some.

[FEsledpuller]

Wouldnt  the smaller bore of the 352 hurt upper rpm power though? You mentioned upper rpm power being important. I guess you need to have a good balance of HP and tq.

[FEsledpuller]

Are all FE clutches the same for cars and trucks? Looks like the few aftermarket clutches I have seen just say 11".

[hotrodfeguy]

As said, you need to have a good balance of HP and tq.
And a friend of mine who is a big Ford sled head said "make as much as you can as wide as you can" for pulling He used to run TP heads on a 454 combo and he said it was great when he could hook up and keep in it but one pull out of the throttle and he could never get it back cause the old TP heads would never have any bottom end. But today we have those updated Felony heads that flow as much as TP heads on top and as much as a CJ on bottom end flow so it's the best of both worlds in one head. Also I am with Cody here and would just add a nice roller cam you can hit some serious profiles you could never hit with a juice cam. Also you can deck the block side to make your CR as needed, wedge does have it's place.

[cammerfe]

I believe the idea regarding lack of torque with a TP came from using the wrong sort of things to go with it. Please look at the use of the TP in the GT40 at LeMans where it was necessary at both the Mulsanne corner and at Arnage to slow down to about 20 MPH and then accelerate again. It was necessary to use a two plane manifold to do so instead of the single plane used in NASCAR. I've flowed both and although there IS a difference, it's minor. And both are quite balanced from runner to runner. We ran the GT40-sourced 652 center-squirters on the 2 plane TP manifold.

A single plane 'spider' does have somewhat less torque to offer.

We ran a dual plane TP 427 in Brother Lon's '67 Mustang. For several months it was his daily driver as well as being regularly street-raced during that Summer of '68. Please believe that lack-of-torque was the least of the potential problems. And we ran the GT40-sourced 652 center-squirters on the 2 plane TP manifold.
 

KS

[FEsledpuller]

Can anyone tell me if I get the deep 8 quart oil pan will I be okay with not doing any type of oil restriction to the heads? I figured this would allow a few quarts in the top end while keeping plenty of oil in the bottom for the bearings.

[cjshaker]

It should be fine. You could even add an extra quart for a total of 9. Once the engine is running, it will have several quarts floating around in the engine. Some FEs have a tendancy to flood the heads, but that is usually due to drainback issues and not too much oil. Some guys disagree and like to restrict oil to the rockers, some don't. I like to keep oil flowing there for cooling purposes as much as anything else. You can help the flooding issue by contouring the drainbacks, making sure there is room to get by the studs and using the tins (if possible, some rocker shaft stand systems cause problems with using them). Either way, with decent drainback, 8-9qts of oil should be plenty to feed the engine.

[FEsledpuller]

Would a standard or high volume pump be recommended?

[ScotiaFE]

I'm going to say, Yes.
Or a M57B which will put out about 60 to 65 psi (the same as a HV), but is a standard volume.

[Barry_R]

How well is the bottom end built? Did you sonic the block? What pistons are you  Keep in mind that Barry's heads aren't quite making 500 hp on a streetable 445 at 5500 rpm. With more cam and compression you might get there, but it will shift your power curve higher and you'll lose some torque.

You really need to learn how to put things into a proper context.

That 9.8:1 compression 445 mentioned in the magazine article has a really small 224@.050 hydraulic roller cam intended for power brakes and a decent idle - his wife drives the car as a normal cruiser.  A set of Stage X ported Edelbrocks in the same general package requires roughly 10 degrees more duration to make about the same power and still made less torque.  The same exact heads have supported over 600 horsepower unported in bigger cube builds.

The below is not a really good comparison, but its the one I have at hand right now.  Its a pair of similar builds with off the shelf Edelbrocks and a 218@.050 cam versus the magazine article engine.  The key observation here is that - even with a bigger cam the engine with better heads out-torqued the lesser engine by a fair margin even at the bottom of the pull.



Adding compression in these ranges will raise power and torque - there is no downside beyond fuel tolerance.  The puller needs to decide on the working RPM range - both top and bottom.  If he never goes below 2500, trading power and torque below that range in order to gain power above it is a 100% winner.  Won't matter if it idles like crap and stumbles through the pits - if it makes power where it's working.

If I were doing the build on something of a budget I would blend the suggestions a bit.  Regrind the factory 390 crank for the BBC rods, get a good piston and .043 ring combo, some aftermarket I beams, a flat tappet solid with rather short durations in the high 240s and as much lift as you can tolerate. - .600+ plus.  Obviously I would use my heads, but ported Edelbrocks will also work well - keep the cross section fairly small - don't get crazy.  The RPM intake and a good 750ish double pumper & go.

[ScotiaFE]

Are all FE clutches the same for cars and trucks? Looks like the few aftermarket clutches I have seen just say 11".

Your opening another can of worms here.
What 4 speed are you talking about?
You can get some pretty nice 11" clutches.
Ford used 11" and 12" and they were different between cars and trucks. Small spline and big spline, even different bells.
For your huff'in and puff'in  390ish yanker your going to need a after market set up. Plan on spending more.

[BH107]

You really need to learn how to put things into a proper context.

Yeah, it was a bad example but I was just trying to find something with your heads around 500 hp. At that point he was still planning on keeping th bottom end stock too.

So with your suggestion and your heads how much HP do you think he'll make and at what RPM?

[FEsledpuller]

Are all FE clutches the same for cars and trucks? Looks like the few aftermarket clutches I have seen just say 11".

Your opening another can of worms here.
What 4 speed are you talking about?
You can get some pretty nice 11" clutches.
Ford used 11" and 12" and they were different between cars and trucks. Small spline and big spline, even different bells.
For your huff'in and puff'in  390ish yanker your going to need a after market set up. Plan on spending more.

The trans would be whatever 4 speed would have came in a mid 70's ford highboy pickup. I work at a parts store and showed some of the clutch sets had the same part numbers between cars and trucks, but a couple were different. It also shows a diaphragm type and lever type. From a quick internet search it looks like I probably have the lever style in there and should stick with it. Aftermarket clutch set in this style seem to be in the $300-400 dollar range. I was looking to pick one up soon but got to thinking about the clutch break in period. The truck is not registered or insured for the street, and most info I have found shows a recommended 500 mile easy period. This is not doable for me, although I do live out in the country and could do a 20 minute or so drive around the block, constantly engaging and disengaging the clutch, but that's about it. So how can I break in this clutch before competition? I will also mention the first competition this clutch will see will be behind a mostly stock 390 in the stock class. This is in a month and a half from now. After that I plan to start this motor build.