toploader shifting

[fryedaddy]

is there anything i can do to help. when i shift from first to second it dont want to go in second if your over 3 or 4 grand.second to third and third to forth shifts fine at 5500 to 6000. cant change to different trans,hoping theres something simple causing this.

[blykins]

Sounds like the blocking ring/gear teeth are not getting along. 

First though, what trans fluid are you running?

[fryedaddy]

it has g4 or 5 in it,i made sure it was right when i bought it because it was hard to find.we checked out the trans when i bought it,it is fresh,no wear,i paid up for it,its seems to be in great shape

[frnkeore]

It may not apply in your case but, check your motor mounts and/or restrict the engine movement with something as simple as a chain from the front face of the head to the chassis, on the drivers side.

I had that issue but, it was at over 5k.

[fryedaddy]

i put steel bushings in my shifter and that seems to help quiet a bit.maybe the plastic bushings were binding under pressure.not perfect but better.i will put a chain on the driver side to limit movement,thanks

[GerryP]

What happens if you put some real force into the shift?  Like using your Kung Fu grip?  Like you are channelling Ronnie Sox?  If it grinds, then your rings are not adequately gripping the gear cone.  That could be wear or lubricant related, or even a build flaw.  If it goes in without a grind, then you need to work on your Kung Fu grip.

[cjshaker]

I had this same problem with mine after putting in new blocker rings and replacing 2nd gear, from wear on the engagement teeth. It was hit or miss as to whether or not it would go into 2nd at RPM. It shifted better before, with the worn factory parts. Everything looked good, and everything was in spec with new input and output bearings and no excessive nose movement due to shaft wear. I've seen the same problem before on a 302 Maverick, after a toploader rebuild with new blocker rings. I have no way of verifying it, but I think that new blocker rings are not of the same quality that the factory stuff was. Whether it's the friction "ridges" or the cone angle, I don't know, but they just don't seem to work as good. The engagement teeth on the new gear looked fine, but maybe the friction angle was off on it as well, being a reproduction part. The friction angles really need to be perfect for them to work as they should. In short, reproduction parts just aren't up to the quality standards as the factory stuff, IMO. No shock there though, as that is pretty much to be expected with reproduction parts. They work fine for street duty, but just don't cut it for high speed shifting.

You could go the route of eliminating every other tooth, as they did in the days of yore, but I don't know if that'll cure the issue. I ended up switching to a Jerico since I was getting more serious about racing it, and I knew I would just end up hurting the toploader, so never did bother to "cure" the issue. If I had been serious about keeping the toploader, I suppose I would have tried to locate some NOS original rings and a 2nd gear, to see if that helped, but that certainly would be a PITA.

[galaxiex]

I used to run Dex III ATF in my top loader. 390 Mustang street use.
Makes it shift "easier" and smoother.
Not great for bearing life tho... not as much film strength as gear oil.
If you don't abuse it too hard the ATF can work for mild street use.

Maybe try it just temporarily to see if it helps?

FWIW the OEM's went to ATF for many of their passenger car and some light trucks manual transmissions.
The mid to late 80's and 90's F150 5.0L with the Mazda 5 speed calls for ATF.
If you put 80-90 gear oil in it, it won't shift worth crap and the trans eventually will fail.


Honda manual trans used to use 30W engine oil 70's to 90's.
I don't know what they use now.

[fryedaddy]

What happens if you put some real force into the shift?  Like using your Kung Fu grip?  Like you are channelling Ronnie Sox?  If it grinds, then your rings are not adequately gripping the gear cone.  That could be wear or lubricant related, or even a build flaw.  If it goes in without a grind, then you need to work on your Kung Fu grip.

it dont grind,im getting older,maybe i do need to work on getting my kung fu grip back.i have huge hands,used to be able to open any jar.i will get more serious and see if it helps too.

[hotrodford]

Make sure it has GL4 lube. 
As mentioned, the aftermarket parts are not the equal of the Ford parts, but that is all we have.

Have had the same issue on my vintage road race Mustang after a transmission rebuild.  For me it was either "shift it" or go home.  I more or less adopted the "kung fu grip" because I wasn't going home.  That transmission has three track days on it now with 7500 rpm shifts and works fine but I will say the "kung fu grip" has stuck with me!!  On the warm up lap the transmission shifts as easy as a good working toploader in a street car.

[Rory428]

I used to run Dex III ATF in my top loader. 390 Mustang street use.
Makes it shift "easier" and smoother.
Not great for bearing life tho... not as much film strength as gear oil.
If you don't abuse it too hard the ATF can work for mild street use.

Maybe try it just temporarily to see if it helps?

FWIW the OEM's went to ATF for many of their passenger car and some light trucks manual transmissions.
The mid to late 80's and 90's F150 5.0L with the Mazda 5 speed calls for ATF.
If you put 80-90 gear oil in it, it won't shift worth crap and the trans eventually will fail.


Honda manual trans used to use 30W engine oil 70's to 90's.
I don't know what they use now.

Don`t base what transmission fluid should used in a vintage Toploader, based on what modern transmission use. Toploaders use bronze syncro rings, and are designed to be used with GL4 gear oil, I use 75/90 Brad Penn GL4 fluid in my Toploader, it shifts great, in normal cruising as well as WOT powershifting. Many modern transmissions use some type of ATF, but they do NOT use bronze syncros, rather they are  carbon fiber, or have paper lining, like an automatic. Not to mention that a heavier lube would be better for absorbing shock loads.

[fryedaddy]

its full of GL4.i ordered it off summit and they sent me gl5 so i had to call them up and they sent me the GL4 90 weight then.

[galaxiex]

I used to run Dex III ATF in my top loader. 390 Mustang street use.
Makes it shift "easier" and smoother.
Not great for bearing life tho... not as much film strength as gear oil.
If you don't abuse it too hard the ATF can work for mild street use.

Maybe try it just temporarily to see if it helps?

FWIW the OEM's went to ATF for many of their passenger car and some light trucks manual transmissions.
The mid to late 80's and 90's F150 5.0L with the Mazda 5 speed calls for ATF.
If you put 80-90 gear oil in it, it won't shift worth crap and the trans eventually will fail.


Honda manual trans used to use 30W engine oil 70's to 90's.
I don't know what they use now.

Don`t base what transmission fluid should used in a vintage Toploader, based on what modern transmission use. Toploaders use bronze syncro rings, and are designed to be used with GL4 gear oil, I use 75/90 Brad Penn GL4 fluid in my Toploader, it shifts great, in normal cruising as well as WOT powershifting. Many modern transmissions use some type of ATF, but they do NOT use bronze syncros, rather they are  carbon fiber, or have paper lining, like an automatic. Not to mention that a heavier lube would be better for absorbing shock loads.

With all due respect there are many manual transmissions that spec ATF and use brass synchro rings.
The Ford/Mazda M50D is one such.
Ford specs Mercon for that trans and it definitely uses brass/bronze rings.
I’ve been building transmissions for 45 years and have seen many other units that also use brass rings and spec ATF.
True, many units have fiber or other materials and require atf.
But atf won’t hurt brass rings.
Also true the gear oil absorbs shock loads better, but I put 80,000 miles on my top loader with ATF in it and when I opened it up for a refresh it was still like new inside.
Changed seals and put it back together.
Obviously don’t use atf for drag strip use and 7000 rpm clutch dumps.
YMMV