Author Topic: 427 high riser questions  (Read 1794 times)

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hbstang

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427 high riser questions
« on: July 07, 2013, 03:21:15 PM »
FIRST i want to say thanks for letting me on jays forum,i am new here but not to FEs and have been on the other forum for a long time.
my question is about the different high riser ford intakes.i am slowly building yet another 64 t-bolt clone street strip car,with a 452 side oiler,and have 2 intakes.one is the c4ae -d and the other is c4ae-f.did these intakes have date codes?the D has some numbers on the front,as shown in picture.
 also,which would work better all around, D or F.i also would consider the dove tunnel wedge as well.
on the heads,they are a later set form 69 or 70 date codes,what would be the chamber volume?one book i have says its 72-76 CCs,but i thought they would be 88-91 for a 427 head.these appear unmilled.
my plan is enough hp to get this in the high tens with a toploader,and still be streetable.



jayb

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 08:35:52 PM »
Welcome aboard; glad to have you here.  The "3 KD" on the manifold is a date code.  3 is for 1963, K is for October (months are labeled A through M, but there is no I), and I'm not sure what the D means but it may signify the day of the casting, maybe the 13th if they start with 1-9 for the day, then go to letters.

I'm afraid I don't know which intake is which from the part numbers; can you post pics of the two intakes?  They are both 2X4 intakes?

I'm interested in learning more about the heads as well; I didn't know that high riser heads were available past 1964.  No idea what the chamber volume might be, unfortunately...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC

   

BH107

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 09:29:28 PM »
The F intakes were supposed to be worth about 40 HP over the D intake from what I've heard. The Dove Tunnel wedge makes even more, but doesn't look correct and also has 4160 carb spacing, so you can't use the correct carbs or air bonnet.

Combustion chambers were usually around 72cc like the 427 low risers, the large chambers didn't come out until the medium risers. From what I've heard and read the heads, intakes, and different versions of the carbs were available over the counter until the early 70s, even listed in the 1968 Hi-Perf Parts Catalog.

My dad has a complete High Riser that was built by Carl Holbrook in 1978 and has been in a crate since. It had a 4v intake on it, but we picked up a 8v as its going in a T-Bolt clone as well. I've been able to trace the engine back through its previous owners and talked to the one who had it built. He as from Detroit and got the parts from friends at Ford. Everything looks like new, and being that they were later service heads they were probably less than 10 years old when they were built. We sold the 4v intake to a member here, and it looked like it had never been run. The original owner had it built for a Mach 1 drag car and then never finished it. The engine was sold with the car, and the next owner kept it as a spare! The best part was, he still had the original invoice from Holbrook Engineering, as well as 7 pages of Ford Blueprints for the heads and rocker assemblies.

We were planning on putting a HR in our 63 Galaxie as well, but decided to go with a 406 instead. The same member who bought the 4v intake bought our extra set of heads, intake, and rockers off of eBay tonight.

hbstang

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 05:45:26 PM »
here is some pictures of the D and F intakes.the F intake has been milled on the carb pads from what i can tell.the most visable difference in the intakes is the cross over between front and rear carb pads.i may use the F intake on my 452 ,i can always add some spacers.
also,on my heads,one pair has no date code and one pair has a OLXX and OKXX.very hard to read.both sets have machined chambers,and i did CC one of them @ 88CCs.i would have thought they were available over the counter like most other ford heads and engines.many went into boats!
gotta love those 60s and 70s boat racers.the first 2 are the D intake.
i will need a cam for this as well.compression is about 10.25-1 and will try to use the bu-tb carbs i have.they to are later date codes.would like to hit 480-500 hp by 6300.





jayb

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 08:29:59 PM »
That's cool, I have never seen a picture of that D intake.  Thanks for posting those pictures; those crossover passages are rather unique.  The F intake is much more conventional from a performance perspective; I'll bet it would make more power. 

I'm really surprised by the 88cc chamber in the heads; that is much bigger than I would have expected.  Nevertheless, with 450 cubic inches you should have no problem making your horsepower target with those heads and that intake.  I assume you are thinking of running a solid flat tappet cam?  You could actually use a little more compression, but if you stuck a medium performance solid cam like a Comp 294S in there I think you would hit your horsepower target and run on pump gas all day long.  Or you could upgrade to a roller cam and pick up quite a bit more power..
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC

   

BH107

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 10:55:46 PM »
I'm assuming that they made a change to the later over the counter heads so that the combustion chamber would match the MR and later the TP combustion chamber, possibly so they could all use the same pistons. My Ford Perf. catalog from 68 lists them with the 88cc chambers, but my earlier references all say 72cc.

Yes your F intake has been cut down quite a bit, and also taken the slant out of it. Still probably the better choice, and run spacers like you said.

hbstang

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 06:46:29 PM »
so,on the D intake,would that be a correct intake for an original 64 fairlane t-bolt or light weight galaxie?
and if so what might the value be?it looks untouched to me,no porting or milling anywhere.it does have some minor corrosion pitting next to the bolt holes.i cant fit both intakes on one engine,so i may end up selling one as well as one of the long blocks.
also,are the bt bu carbs hard to set up and get running right?
also have a question about the 427 side oiler blocks,i have a 66 date coded one,and its .050 over on the bore,is this a real problem? i am going to have it sonic tested.

jayb

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 07:04:07 PM »
I would guess that the D intake is correct for an early Tbolt or LWG, but I don't know for sure; maybe someone else here knows.  Those carbs will not be a problem to set up; they should tune just like any other Holley carb. 

On the block, I have one that is .060" over and has been run hard on the dyno at around 650 HP for hundreds of pulls, with no problem.  The thinnest wall is only .079" thick.  The sideoilers use a cylinder bore casting that is cloverleaf shaped on the outside, so it is thicker in four spots around the bore.  I think this makes them a little stronger than a standard FE, which has a normal cylindrically shaped bore casting.  Your sonic test will tell the tale, but if you have one or two bores that dip below .100" thick in the non-thrust areas, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC

   

BH107

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 10:40:00 AM »
Yes the D intake was obviously earlier, but I also read somewhere that they continued to use them on the T-Bolts with the automatic, while the upgraded F intake was used on the 4 speeds..

I was playing with one of ours last weekend, and got a picture. This is an F intake, and you can see how much yours has been cut down.


hbstang

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 07:21:38 PM »
any chance you could take some measurments for me?maybe at the front of the rear carb pad,distance from the top of the crossover to the carb pad.i can get a couple of 4 hole billet spacers and have my freind mill them down a little to match the carb angle.i sure it would affect performance with out them.dan

BH107

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:09 PM »
I set the intake on a flat surface, then laid a straight edge across the carb pads from front to rear. With a square at the front of the intake on the bench, the straight edge is 5 7/8" high. At the rear of the intake it is 7 3/4" high. The rear of the front carb pad is 3/4" higher than the crossover, and the front of the rear pad is 1 1/8" off the crossover. Of course all of these measurements assume that my intake hasn't been cut, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't. I'll try to check against another this weekend.


MT63AFX

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 10:57:28 AM »
Welcome aboard; glad to have you here.  The "3 KD" on the manifold is a date code.  3 is for 1963, K is for October (months are labeled A through M, but there is no I), and I'm not sure what the D means but it may signify the day of the casting, maybe the 13th if they start with 1-9 for the day, then go to letters.

I'm afraid I don't know which intake is which from the part numbers; can you post pics of the two intakes?  They are both 2X4 intakes?

I'm interested in learning more about the heads as well; I didn't know that high riser heads were available past 1964.  No idea what the chamber volume might be, unfortunately...

The "D" could represent the week it was cast. "3 K D" could be 1963 October fourth week. Similar to Holley's coding?

hbstang

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Re: 427 high riser questions
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 05:01:58 PM »
I set the intake on a flat surface, then laid a straight edge across the carb pads from front to rear. With a square at the front of the intake on the bench, the straight edge is 5 7/8" high. At the rear of the intake it is 7 3/4" high. The rear of the front carb pad is 3/4" higher than the crossover, and the front of the rear pad is 1 1/8" off the crossover. Of course all of these measurements assume that my intake hasn't been cut, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't. I'll try to check against another this weekend.
a big thank you for the numbers.now i can find some spacers for it and mill them with the angle. ;D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 05:07:48 PM by hbstang »