Great interview with Ed Pink on the SOHC

[cjshaker]

Not much to say except, if you're an FE and/or a SOHC fan, you don't want to skip this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKOYRWHDChQ

[Autoholic]

There's a real shiny SOHC running coil on plug ignition in the video. That's pretty neat.

[TomP]

Ha, just watched it and came here to post it and was beaten. That is a great video. Mitch Stapleton did another video of Ed Pink's shop months ago that was really good too.

[jayb]

Great video, but there is some misinformation in there.  For example:

- Pink claims that NASCAR had outlawed overhead cam engines at the time the SOHC came out.  Does anyone really believe that??  Does anyone think that Ford, who was heavily involved in NASCAR in the early 1960s, would have done a complete overhead cam engine development for NASCAR if it was against the rules?  I've never heard that from people who were there at the time, like Earl Wade (RIP), or Jim Barillaro (RIP), or Kurt Neighbor.  Ford ran an SOHC equipped Galaxie at a Daytona test session in January 1964, according to Wade.  NASCAR actually approved the engine for competition in 1964 or 1965, but with an extreme weight penalty that would have made it not competitive.  Ford continued to try to get the engine approved up until 1966, when an option in the Ford shop manual for full size cars showed engine codes for the SOHC in production cars (L for a 4V version, and M for the 8V version).  They were still trying to convince NASCAR that they were going to put the engine in production.  I think what may have happened is that about the time that Pink started to get involved with the SOHC, NASCAR outlawed overhead cam engines, but I don't know if that is even true.  But if it is, it certainly wasn't done before Ford had developed the engine, which is what he implies in the video.

- The Ford SOHC book that the video claims is extremely rare, could potentially be rare direct from Ford, but reprints have been available for years.  I bought a reprint in the early 1980s.  It was $40 back then, but they were available, and probably still are.

- Pink claims that his all aluminum SOHC weighs 800 pounds.  What a joke.  My 585" SOHC with aluminum Shelby block, aluminum heads, and the Hilborn injection setup, complete with all parts except the alternator, headers, and flywheel, weighs 540 pounds.  A factory, all cast iron SOHC weighs 735 pounds.  I have weighed them, so I know.

A lot of the info in the video is really good, but to me these whoppers that get told about the engine ruin it.  Now there will be a bunch of idiots on Facebook making these claims.  Sheesh 

[Autoholic]

I read NASCAR did outlaw overhead cams because Chrysler threatened to leave. When Ford got NASCAR to reverse their decision, it came with the weight penalty that would have made the cars too slow to be competitive. By this time Ford already had the FE developed into a competitive engine so they focused on that.

I never doubted that, because Chrysler threatening to leave would have been a big enough problem. By the time Chrysler made the threat, the SOHC had been developed. Remember, it only took a few months to create the SOHC. That would have all been in secret too.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/nascar-bans-426-hemi-sohc-ford-launch-wild-1965-racing-season/amp/

[428kidd]

Good read on the cammer in nascar from John Craft from sometime back. My links didn't work yesterday.

https://www.fordfe.com/1965-vs-1966-427-t167267-s20.html
https://www.fordfe.com/cammer-in-nascar-t107976.html

[jayb]

I read NASCAR did outlaw overhead cams because Chrysler threatened to leave. When Ford got NASCAR to reverse their decision, it came with the weight penalty that would have made the cars too slow to be competitive. By this time Ford already had the FE developed into a competitive engine so they focused on that.

I never doubted that, because Chrysler threatening to leave would have been a big enough problem. By the time Chrysler made the threat, the SOHC had been developed. Remember, it only took a few months to create the SOHC. That would have all been in secret too.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/nascar-bans-426-hemi-sohc-ford-launch-wild-1965-racing-season/amp/

I wouldn't call that article conclusive, and the fact remains that overhead cams were not outlawed when Ford developed the SOHC in 1963.  Ed Pink implied in that interview that they developed the engine without knowing overhead cams were banned.  By the way, again according to my conversations with Earl Wade, the SOHC was in development for a LOT longer than 90 days - Jay

[Autoholic]

Ed Pink implied in that interview that they developed the engine without knowing overhead cams were banned.

I had to rewatch the video to see what he said. "No one checked the rule book". So, you're right to point out that at the time Ford starting working on the SOHC, it was within the rules. I thought you were questioning the fact that NASCAR / Bill France outlawed the SOHC after Ford had made it when you said "at the time".

I've tried to find where I read Chrysler's protest to the SOHC but I can't find it. It doesn't surprise me though and Chrysler wouldn't be the first car manufacturer to threaten to quit a racing series to get their way. I think Enzo Ferrari is the champion of that move.

[jayb]

I've heard the same thing about Chrysler's protest, and in fact somewhere I read that Chrysler claimed that if NASCAR let the SOHC run, they were going to build a double overhead cam hemi!  They ended up staying out of NASCAR in 1965 anyway, but it wouldn't surprise me if between the SOHC and Chrysler's threats, an overhead cam ban came about.

By the way, I've always hated Bill France and NASCAR for stopping the engine developments like the SOHC.  I think Oldsmobile had a DOHC in the works at that time too.  If NASCAR had let those engines run, think of the cool production cars that could have been had in the 1960s, and the junkyard gold we could have been looking at in the 70s and 80s!  But they were gun shy about speed after the death of Fireball Roberts, and tire development hadn't come very far at that point, so I guess it's hard to blame them for those decisions...

[Falcon67]

Here's "the book" - http://www.sohc-shop.com/store/ford-427-sohc-engine-service-manual-1

$65. 

Oops - another, $25 - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/427-single-overhead-cam-engine-service-manual-ford-motorco/1142671098

[cjshaker]

I'm lucky to remember what happened last week, let alone 60+ years ago...lol  That is, if I were even old enough to be alive back then. Not sure why he would have gotten the weight so far off, I just sort of overlooked that part. At his age, I can forgive him for a few slip ups. And Facebook will be Facebook (haven't been on there in 15+ years). Nobody there is concerned with facts, because they're already experts 

[Katz427]

Initially  the SOHC was considered legal, then Ronnie Householder, got wind of the Holman Moody tests. Holman Moody ran dyno tests on a hemi, that was purchased from Ray Fox. The engine made  550 bhp. Ronnie heard the SOHC was making over 600 bhp. Game ON! HE went into a full press, told Big Bill France, that Chrysler would develope a Dohc, in response. Tests at Daytona had the 1964 Galaxie reported to be hiting 190 mph on the straights!  A little known fact was the France family had the second largest holding of GM stock. Bill really believed GM would return, to NASCAR, but an engine war would hurt those chances. So hemi, and HI riser engines were Outlawed for 1965, but GM did not return.
So for 1966 both the hemi and Sohc were approved, with a catch, a Ford running the Sohc would have to weigh and extra 427 lbs.  HenryII was not happy , but agreed to a test conducted by Goodyear, too determine what the effect of the extra 427 lbs, would be. Ralph Moody, and NASCAR officials attended the test, which I believe was run at Atlanta Speedway. The Galaxie was fast, and broke the existing track record. BUT, tire wear was much higher, and Moody estimated at least 4 more pitstops, would be needed in the 500 mile race.  The decision was Henry II's and after a discussion with Big Bill, Henry made the decision to pull from NASCAR,  but also for Holman Moody, to start developing the Fairlane based stock car.
For Jay, I did see a Sohc Pontiac hemi engine, that was being developed at the time for possible production in the 70-71 time.  However, Big Bill, after all the political maneuvering,  got what he was striving for, getting rid of pesky Ford and Chrysler,  and getting GM back in NASCAR.

[67xr7cat]

Has been years, but someplace around here I have several articles from 1963 on the SOHC.  From what I recall Nascar would not homologate the SOHC because Ford had not made enough of them and Bill France did not believe them when they had him come down to see the SOHC engines rolling off the assembly line.  This is the same reason the Chrysler Hemi was banned too. In Chrysler's case after sitting out a year they came out with the street Hemi. Now I do recall in one of the articles it citing that roller rockers were not legal and that would be a problem for the Cammer.  So there may very well have been something. Reality is what is allowed or not in Nascar has always been a bit political.  At one point Ford was allowed to run the tunnelport head, but they never came on a production car. You could buy them over the counter, but that was quite a  stretch.  Nascar let them do it because at the time Ford would not have been competitive without them.   

Although Ed Pink was talking about the all aluminum SOHC he was building, I took his 800 lb. comment to be he was talking about the original and whether 735 lbs or 800 lbs it was not a light engine. Seems to me he just talking like someone who been building them for 60 years and not thinking about that some don't have a clue about these engines.

Really to me some of the comments in this thread, although I am sure not intended to be, are disrespectful to Ed Pink. Every single one of these guys including Earl Wade have their own take on things from back then and some of it may sound questionable, but then again if you have a chance to talk to one of these guys there usually is more detail that they will give that will clear up any confusion.  I think it was great that Ed Pink shared his experience and knowledge. He has probably forgotten more about 427 SOHC engines them most know about them.  Is a shame the interview was conducted like someone came over to talk to their buddy instead of keeping it focused. I'd say without Ed Pink the 427 SOHC would have not have been as successful back in the 60's. Is a shame Ford never made a stronger block back then.   

[Rory428]

I have not watched the video yet, but I wonder if Ed Pinks claim about the "800 pound" Cammer, may have also been as a Top Fuel engine, complete with the GMC 6.71 supercharger and drive setup, mechanical fuel injection, with pump and plumbing, and possibility some form or bottom end reinforcement of the block. Not sure if it was Pink, but I seem to recall many years ago, about a steel "girdle" being fabricated to beef up the stock block, that looked rather bulky. So maybe the weight as installed in the dragster was a fair bit heavier than a NA application.

[jayb]

In the video he was referring to the engine he had just built, which was an all aluminum SOHC with 8 stack injection.