Roller cam and lifters for a 410-tow engine?

[GJCAT427]

 Been rethinking about the cam and lifter debacle with flat tappet cams. I been reading about the latest rash of cam and lifter failures and wondering if it would be worth the time and money involved to switch now that I`m getting close to building the engine. I`d like some opinions. This motor will be used to tow and drive daily as well as a work truck. It`s a 64 F 350 flat bed with a Sterling rear and a 5 speed over drive or a C6 tranny. Still working on the Tranny choice, Opinions?   

[blykins]

It comes down to expense.   A hydraulic roller cam and lifter setup will cost you $1100-1200 in addition to a steel distributor gear if you don't have one.  A flat tappet setup is much less expensive. 

I personally wouldn't sweat a flat tappet break-in, but on a roller cam setup, you just turn the key and worry about breaking in the engine, not necessarily the cam.

[My427stang]

I am with Brent.  All the stuff I send out the door I try to do roller, but my own is flat tappet, not because it's better, but because I don't pay me  

That being said, Crower Camsavers, a good cam with enough taper and good install and break in, really not an issue.  In fact, I'll say what I have said before, I haven't personally seen a cam fail that didn't have a preventable reason.  No attack at anyone, and certainly not thinking about any single engine in particular other than those who showed up on my doorstep, but I am not sure there is a name-brand cam or lifter problem

The other benefits with a flat tappet for that application are: 1- likely don't need to machine for spring cups. Rollers I like to do it because I haven't found a spring I like that will locate on the Ford head, and 2 - A little easier to manage overlap (not that you can't get there, but typically a flat tappet will have a little steeper ramps than a hyd roller)

I do love me some hyd rollers, LOL, but there is an associated cost

[TJ]

I like my roller for a couple reasons
- Provides freedom of oil choice.  Call me crazy but my economy went up 0.5 mpg switching from a top name hi zinc oil to a modern synthetic blend.
- Hope others can chime in here but I feel my roller provided a broader power band than my older flat tapped engine had…excellent near idle grunt and respectable upper mid range hp (over 1 hp per cube) from the same cam.

[fe468stroker]

Yes, the roller setup is more expensive than a solid cam but what price do you put on peace of mind?  We have all heard the horror stories of wiped out lobes and mushroomed lifters even though everything was done correctly.  It was definitely worse in the past because of substandard materials but there are still tales of it happening today.  After spending the kind of money it takes to build any engine, the roller can be considered insurance.  With some homework you should be able to find a profile to fit your needs either in hydraulic or solid roller.

[cjshaker]

Brent, when I contacted you about a roller for my 445 towing engine, you said you couldn't come up with a good profile for one in a roller. Are you suggesting that you could for a 410, but not a 445?

[blykins]

Brent, when I contacted you about a roller for my 445 towing engine, you said you couldn't come up with a good profile for one in a roller. Are you suggesting that you could for a 410, but not a 445?

I'm slightly confused.

I'm not suggesting anything, and I didn't even crack a lobe catalog open for him, because that's not the question he asked.  He essentially asked if a roller cam was worth it or if he should risk a flat tappet.  I tried to give him a quick pros/cons and didn't really look at anything else.  He didn't list anything about his build at all, so I wouldn't be able to come up with an idea on a grind anyway.

Happy Holidays, Doug.

[JamesonRacing]

Blair Patrick built the 445 for my F250 with a very small hydraulic roller.  Smooth idle, stump-pulling torque, good power to 5k.  No lost sleep over whether the cam will fail me prematurely.  I wouldn't go back to a flat tappet, but then I also wouldn't give up my EFI for a carb on an all weather street ride.

[manofmerc]

I just broke in a solid flat tappet cam for my bbf drag car so far so good . My center oiler 427 powered comet doesn't have oil going to the lifters just splash from the crank I built that engine in 2006. It is fine .I always remove the inner springs plenty of lube on the lobes whatever oil supplement the camshaft manufacture recommends and I use Lucas break in oil .Lucas is the cheapest !!And as most know Valvoline VR1 is a great oil for us old flat tappet guys .I have a reed sft cam I ran in my 466 drag car for ten years It is still ok .I did loose a cam on break in once .That was because my smarty pants (being nice here) machinist over shimmed my valve springs instead of the recommended 130 lbs. on the seat they were 160 lbs. It made a mess of my new 460 engine .If you are careful buy name brand components get your engine up and running quickly flat tappets are ok .BUT you have to check things I had a camshaft reground and a set of lifters refaced .The lifters didn't have a radius they were basically flat .My reground cam had .001 taper the comp I purchased had .003 .Those parts are still on the table I chose to buy another set of lifters and a cam . I am considering a solid roller cam for my drag car in the future but for now I just have to be content with what I have .Doug

[Falcon67]

The engines here that get beat on are all roller.  The only flat tappet engine left is the old 300HP 302. If it gets a teardown for refresh, it'd get a roller also. Yes the rollers cost more, but they just work.  A fail with a good flat tappet setup + the parts rebuy will nearly pay for a complete roller.  I just figure it's the cost of doing business.

That said - the flat in the 302 survived a huge intake water leak at 5 minutes into break-in, a partial teardown, repeated engine flush with diesel and kerosene, fresh 10w-30 plus Crane break-in additive and it complete break in without issue.  that was about 18 years ago, so - lucky or better parts.

[Stangman]

i just went roller on the new motor in my Stang. Its really the only difference besides a bigger intake valve.
And yes it wasnt cheap. Cam, lifters, springs it adds up. I did go to TD race rockers which also needed pushrods that
oil through them. The  solid cam that I took out is like brand new. Brad Penn brake in oil , the old crane cam black moly lube on cam
that doesnt drain off and of course taking the inner springs out. Also when I put the lifters in i make sure I can spin them easily by hand.
I dont do as many as the builders on here but Ive done 15 solid cams and knock on wood havent had one go bad but I can see how it could happen
even to the most careful. The cam that was in there had about 1000 street miles and 100 1//8th mile passes and 100 1/4 mile passes. I tell ya i do like
the sound of a solid cam.

[Falcon67]

Last solid I had was a Crane 238.  Pulled it out of a motor for a re-fresh, kept it oiled, lifters oiled (Isky lifters with the oil feed hole in the face) and tagged for each hole.  Put it back in about 4 weeks later, everything back in same spot, same block.  Scrubbed block good as usual before assembly.  4th pass the car slowed about 0.02, 5th pass slowed 0.05 and 3 or 4 MPH.  Lost lifter+lobe on #8 exhaust.  Go figure.  Has a hydro roller in it now, no problems except the Howards hydro roller lifters sign off at 6500 like a switch LOL.  I need to find a better set of link bar hydros or update the thing to a solid.  Motor would make best power around 6800.