Building a 410, any advice is greatly appreciated

[My427stang]

Thank you very much.  I will start hunting parts.

One other question I have is just a general engine build question.  If you're building an engine and there is a target rpm should you plan peak just a tad beyond that?  For example I'm gonna build an engine that makes peak power at cruising rpm, 3k.  Would it be smart to actually move the max to about 3500 so there is something left after I hit cruising speed?  I can see why yes and why no.

Also, short duration Higher lift for torque because it keeps the pressures up, correct?

Thanks again
Will

I don't think you will be able to cam it down enough to peak horsepower that low, you would have to drop compression so much to run that short of a cam that a gas motor just wouldn't have any real torque or power.   Yes it would be low in the curve like you want, but the overall peak would be less too, defeating the purpose. I would build it for a 4600-4800 (a total WAG) hp peak, which should put the torque peak right about where you want it. 

I like what you are trying to do, but remember it will never be a diesel, even with a naturally aspirated diesel, the torque from a diesel comes from double the compression and different fuel.  Most modern diesels though have a turbo on top of that to make real power in the 2500 rpm range.

As far as the cam, short duration and less overlap will make it more efficient at lower RPM at part throttle.  In terms of lift, yes more is good, but as your duration gets shorter, its hard to snap the valve open and closed in the short time you have, so generally, lift gets shorter with duration too.

[zukinut]

Thank you for the responses. I'll start looking for parts.

Thanks again
Will

[C6AE]

Thank you very much.  I will start hunting parts.

One other question I have is just a general engine build question.  If you're building an engine and there is a target rpm should you plan peak just a tad beyond that?  For example I'm gonna build an engine that makes peak power at cruising rpm, 3k.  Would it be smart to actually move the max to about 3500 so there is something left after I hit cruising speed?  I can see why yes and why no.

Also, short duration Higher lift for torque because it keeps the pressures up, correct?

Thanks again
Will

With a truck engine, the  work begins when you are pulling a grade, WOT for the duration. Usually (depending on how many gears you have) the engine will settle in and pull the grade at the designed maximum torque. A little rpm overlap is good so that you have time to shift gears.  (horsepower rating at a little higher rpm than the torque) But a broad powerband is what you want, and  this will be determined by the cam.

Cruise rpm is not so important, you want to be able to cruise with a relatively strong vacuum signal.

[zukinut]

Ive had all kinds of diesels. My worn out 390 will walk the don my old fresh 7.3 idi. That thing would pull a house but good god it was slow. Had a obs and a super duty 7.3 and a 6.0

I know my gas engine will never get close to what my turbo diesels were, but it's much cheaper and easier to maintain.

I've jus gotta decide whether I wanna stay with my original 410 plan or step up to the 445.

Will

[zukinut]

Fwiw, this is pretty impressive for a stockish rebuild. That's why I'm thinking I might be happy with a 410

http://fefordtech.com/index.php?topic=40.0

Will

[ScotiaFE]

You should try one of those 390's with a bigger cam 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S8mriRKzUc

[lovehamr]

I can only say that if you're happy with the 410, then you'd be more happy with the 445.  Of course the wallet does have to be taken into consideration.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I don't see how the price difference between a 410 and a 445 is THAT much different.  Why go through all the trouble to get 20ci when you can get 55ci for what, an additional $400?
Especially with your intended usage, the larger engine will not labor nearly as much as the smaller engine making the same power.

I think I'd just be driving the heck out of the 390 and saving money for the larger engine, do it once.  With a 410 I'd always be wondering "what if i went bigger?"

[65er]

I don't see how the price difference between a 410 and a 445 is THAT much different.  Why go through all the trouble to get 20ci when you can get 55ci for what, an additional $400?
Especially with your intended usage, the larger engine will not labor nearly as much as the smaller engine making the same power.

I think I'd just be driving the heck out of the 390 and saving money for the larger engine, do it once.  With a 410 I'd always be wondering "what if i went bigger?"

Then again to go from 445 to 458 is a relatively small increase in CI but also doesn't cost all that much more either.  I'm thinking it only cost me maybe $500 extra.  But the 458 setup has a forged crank and upgraded rods over the Scat setup too.  Blair can help with that stuff.  Also if I ever decide it's still not enough I'll be able to re-block it and use my crank and rods for 1000 HP or more.  Good stuff for speed junkies for sure =)

Hey Howie, what cam have you got in that beast? Sounds friggen awesome man!


Whoops, reading back through the thread I see this is way overboard from what Z was looking for.  But I will say that from my experience it does apply.  I started out just wanting a nice reliable stock rebuild on my 352 and a few upgrades "here and there" has led me here so far.  Good luck keeping your foot out of it Z, I seem to have a hard time with that part 

[zukinut]

Yea builds do that.

The samurai was supposed to be a small lift and 32s. It left the garage on 35s. Then a year later 38s. Then a simple suspension redo turned into a full custom build derived from my knowledge and imagination. Then a bigger 4 banger that got sold before I ever fired it up cuz I decided I needed a small block.

Will

[Drew Pojedinec]

Funny how they do that.  I didn't think about the 4.375 stroke just because it isn't as cheap and drop in. 

Will, we're traveling the same path bro, I remember when you were working on that 7.3 idi over at the other place

[zukinut]

Drew,

That's funny.  I knew I had seen your name before.  I loved that idi. It hated to fire up but by god it was a mule. I had literally replaced everything. Slow and loud that's how it rolled.  I offed it for 3k. Best and worst move ever.

What are you building these days.

Will

[Drew Pojedinec]

Yeah, my handle on most forums is DeepRoots.
Had an 89 f250 xtended cab 7.3idi Ats turbo, zf5, moose pump, etc etc.  It was fast for an 8000lb truck (0-60 in 11 seconds, heh)
Mine was in perfect condition as far as running goes.

When I went out of business and went offshore to work, it didn't make sense to have an old, boring expensive to keep diesel in the yard 8 months a year.  I didn't tow anything anymore and the wife couldn't drive it whatsoever.
I bought a "core" 76 F100 and took 2 years fixing it up.  390, c6, and rebuilt about everything in it.  Truck weights 3800lbs, so even if I put an inline 6 in it, it would have *felt* fast after the diesel.  Sold my diesel after I got the 76 running well enough and used the oney toward my dream car.

I like that little car with a little engine I've been working on for a little while now.  It's not "Fe Power Forums" friendly tho (I'm too poor to afford a 427 block)

[lovehamr]

Hey man, a 429/460 ain't nuthin ta sneeze at!

[65er]

Hey man, a 429/460 ain't nuthin ta sneeze at!

No sir!  Not a damn thing wrong with that in my opinion. Sweet Galaxie either way