Author Topic: 351c Vibration/Growl  (Read 985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
351c Vibration/Growl
« on: October 09, 2022, 12:01:49 PM »
Ok right at the top I did not assemble the engine it is supposed to be a 408 stroker the owner purchased the short block assembled by an unknown party. The goal of the 71Boss 351 is as stock appearing as possible so stock exhaust manifolds,complete stock exhaust stock numbers correct damper.

The damper has had the offset weight machined out so the Assumption was the engine is internal balanced so a non counter weight flywheel was purchased.

Now a few problems I’ve found.
First on first fire up it leaked like a sieve, upper half of rear main backward….
Got that fixed and started again.
Setting floats
Verify idle
Alt charging
Set base timing
Rolled throttle off idle to about 2000-2500 and the engine just chugged and shook…..
I looked at timing again a verified it was only 25-30deg total.

After talking with an engine builder friend he tossed out rotor phasing. I set up to test and at base 15 deg the rotor was well past the No.1 post….hum.
The vacuum is disabled on this correct,less Pertronics, date coded distributor so the timing plate was locked incorrectly.It is important to the owner that the correct date coded vacuum can be in place even though it doesn’t work.
I reset the phasing and frankly it was much better I was able to verify total timing all in at 2800,36deg.
But still that growl /shake ….

In the past I have mistakenly installed a 28inoz flywheel on a 50inoz engine it didn’t growl but did feel like it was going to jump off the jack stands  at 3000rpm.

I’m open to any suggestion at this point.
I feel the engine needs to come out but just want to ensure it’s not a tune issue of some kind.
Easy things first.
I’m going to pull the starter and ensure there is no counter weight on flywheel,I put it on but didn’t take note because ,well “that’s the right one”.
Next pull clutch…..
Beyond that any ideas?

Thanks for your help I know there are some very knowledgeable builders here that’s why I’m asking.
 
Lance H

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3853
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2022, 02:27:00 PM »
Slipped outer ring on the balancer?

Slipped balancer (courtesy Alvin at 460 Ford.com)

Get a piston stop and screw it into the spark plug hole. Turn the engine by hand in both directions. Using the timing pointer as a reference, mark the balancer where it stops. The 0 mark on the balancer should fall exactly halfway between the two marks. If it doesn't your balancer has spun.
Alvin
Bob Maag

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2022, 03:08:53 PM »
Checked damper prior to engine install and again today,damper not slipped.
Flywheel not counter weighted.
Lance H

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3853
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2022, 08:20:43 AM »
Cross fire? Check that #7 and #8 wires do not run parallel. A common issue especially with older wires.

I'd also try yanking each plug wire at the cap, one at a time or course, and see if the shaking stays the same or gets better.
Bob Maag

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2022, 09:40:32 PM »
1,3,7 firing order ….
Replaced plug wires and cap with HEI type…..no change.
MSD installed no change.


New info,engine is out.
Pan is off.
It looks like the counter weights have been turned to clear the block,and they are close.
It looks to have a fairly large counter weight at the center main.
No Mallory.
The piston bottoms have had metal removed.
Big end of the rods do not look to have had metal removed.
Right on the edge of the rear counter weight there is what looks to be an oval. I can’t tell if it says Ford.

Isn’t SCATS logo an oval as well?
So Internal balance?
External balance?
Next week I’ll know.
Lance H

cammerfe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2022, 10:24:27 PM »
I'm puzzled at your (partial) firing order, above. I've owned a bunch of FEs and...??

KS

BigBlueIron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2022, 10:29:45 AM »
I'm puzzled at your (partial) firing order, above. I've owned a bunch of FEs and...??

KS

He is referring to the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 351W/C firing order.

Which begs the question do we know what the cam is and that maybe a 4-7 swap was done?

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2022, 08:23:59 PM »
More info…
400m crank turned down to 3.75 stroke. Counter weights cut down to clear block.
4.030 piston
Pin in the oil ring with support spacer.
6.125 rod 2.100 journal

No Mallory ,so Im fairly certain it’s not internally balanced.
Stock damper has counter weight plus some extra holes. Neutral flywheel.

Cam is off the shelf Comp. Hydraulic roller .Magnum series

I’m pretty sure the balance is off.
Lance H

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 10:57:41 AM »
IIRC 4-7 swap is only a Chevy thing, and it basically gives a Chevy a Ford firing order (once you decode the different cylinder numbers)

I'd be pulling the entire rotating assy and sending it to the balancer.  I have a neutral 351C crank and it took 4 slugs of heavy metal and a bit of counterweight chamfering to get it there. 

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: 351c Vibration/Growl
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2022, 02:14:44 PM »
Falcon, it’s out.
Owner decided to go with a new rotating assembly with 4.0” stroke so for now we are going that direction.
The 400m/3.75 stroke assembly would be useable with 28oz Dampers and Flywheel as well as correct balance.
Lance H