Author Topic: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang  (Read 2347 times)

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Joey120373

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347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« on: April 08, 2022, 12:26:46 PM »
With my FE Power headed 520 on hold for who knows how long.....
Jay's been fighting the covid 2 week " shut down" a full 2 and a half years later.
My block and rotating assembly have been at the machine shop since last june, and it hasn't yet been touched.

I've decided to start on another project for the summer.

Target is 500-530 ish HP, and a high rpm redline.
mustang will be a spirited pump gas daily driver, T56 manual 6 speed, 4.11 rear gears, manual steering and manual brakes.
Weekend cruiser, not a drag car.

So far I have tentatively planned the following group of parts :

Stock roller block, .030 overbore
-I decided against an aftermarket block for now, i would rather put that $$$ else where and save some weight. with the aftermarket block, not sure the extra 16 cubes is worth the extra weight and expense. I know the bigger bore helps with valve shrouding and thicker cylinder walls are always good, but for my power goals I think the extra ~$3000 would be better spent elsewhere.-

Scat rotating assembly ( forged or cast crank ?)
Mahle Flat top pistons (4032 alloy )

AFR 195 or 205cc heads ( 10.5 to 11.0 CR, maybe more, i live at 5400 feet )

Jesel shaft mount rockers

Solid roller cam ( or a hydraulic roller..... )

Intake manifold yet to be decided on.

I want the ability to rev this thing to 7000-7500 rpm, maybe higher.

I know the heads might be on the large side, and the shaft mount rockers are probably overkill, but i want the option to play around with it, rev it higher if i get a wild hair.

Wondering what the experts think of this selection of parts ?
Any advice is appreciated. I have not ordered any parts yet.


Joe
 

pbf777

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 01:45:45 PM »
     Lets' see,

"Target is 500-530 ish HP, and a high rpm redline. ............will be a spirited pump gas .............Stock roller block, .030 overbore - I decided against an aftermarket block........... for my power goals I think the extra ~$3000 would be better spent elsewhere.................Solid roller cam...............I want the ability to rev this thing to 7000-7500 rpm, maybe higher............... i want the option to play around with it, rev it higher if i get a wild hair."    :o

     Just don't cry when it breaks!   

"Wondering what the experts think of this selection of parts ?"  ::)

"Any advice is appreciated."  :)

     And I know that I often seem to come across as a 'dick', but I'm really just trying to be honest and accurate; but, I also find that few really appreciate that fact  :( ; but you did ask!   :)   

     Scott.

     



shady

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 02:32:39 PM »
It's ok to be a dick.  After FElony got banned, it left a lot of room for us amateur dicks.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?

shady

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What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?

Joe-JDC

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 03:18:48 PM »
For your build, go with Scat forged stroker kit, AFR 165 Renegade heads, Hydraulic roller with short travel lifters, Victor Jr or Super Victor ported, and 1 5/8 to 1 3/4" step headers to fit your chassis, 750 Holley/QF/or similar, Deep sump oil pan with canton windage screen.  Those AFR 165 heads will support 550hp, so don't worry about them being too small.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Tommy-T

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 03:45:16 PM »
Please help me with my perpetual ignorance.

Why not install a 351W instead of a 302 stroker.

If the answer is that the engine is slightly wider and you don't want to "notch" anything for the install into your 64.5...that's silly.

Anything near an actual 500hp motor is going to twist that 1965 Mustang like the proverbial pretzel. I'm ass-u-me there's going to be subframe connectors, a 9" install with all the goodies to hook 500hp and so on.

Sooo...I say cut away...and make that a 393 or 408W stroker.

frnkeore

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 04:10:29 PM »
While the 351W block, is stronger, I've always liked the 8.206 deck. If you don't already have the block, I'd stay away from the HO blocks and go with the earliest 302 block, that you can find. The blocks I use are C8, C9 & D4, they are stronger. The jury is out on how much strength a girdle adds but, they are cheap and I would add one.
Frank

blykins

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 05:03:10 PM »
I've got a couple of 347 recipes based on stock blocks.  One particular 347 made 540 hp here and has been in a bracket car for the past 12 years.  He raced it for 8 years straight until he puked a power valve and wasn't paying attention to it.  Washed the cylinders down, then needed a freshen up.   It was a good thing he brought it back in, the cast Scat crank had cracked. 

So...I would probably do a steel crank, even though the crank would  be rated for a lot more hp than the factory block will take. 

That little engine runs some AFR 185 heads, a fairly mild solid roller, 11:1 compression, and a Super Victor intake.  It makes 540 hp @ 7000.

I also built a nice little 347 with CHI 3V 185cc heads that made about 530 hp @ 6200 with a hydraulic roller and 10:1 compression. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Rory428

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 06:54:53 PM »
I have had both a stock block 331 SBF, and currently have a "big bore" 347, both pump gas usable, flat top pistons, with AFR 185 heads. The 331 made 487 HP, and ran mid to low 10s in the 1/4 mile, for a couple of years before it split the main bearing area of the factory 5.0 roller block. It had a solid flat tappet cam, and never went over 7000 RPM.  My current 347,made 528 HP, has a 4.125" bore Dart block. Both engines used 3.25" stroke cranks, the 331 was a cast Eagle, with 28 oz imbalance, the 347 has an internal balanced steel crank, and a hyd. roller cam, that I shift at 7000 RPM, and hits 7200 across the finish line. Considering the use of a stock block limits you to a 4.03" bore , that means you will be using a 3.4" stroke. With the longer stroke causing more cylinder side loading, and wanting to turn 7500 RPM, makes me doubtful that a stock block will be very long lived, if you actually plan to twist it that high very often.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader.

Joey120373

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 07:51:14 PM »
 @pbf777

“     Just don't cry when it breaks! ”

Won’t cry a bit as long as the heads are ok  8)

On my list of criteria, a 200,000 mile motor is way, way down on the list. If the block breaks, just gives me an excuse to step up to a good block.


pbf777

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2022, 08:41:55 PM »
Won’t cry a bit as long as the heads are ok  8)
On my list of criteria, a 200,000 mile motor is way, way down on the list.

     But, it's actually often just called the "luck of the draw"!   ???   As we seem to always hear about so-and-so, who spent ten dollars on a bunch of junk (plus a can of Kylon  ::) ), made a gazillion horsepower, and it ran forever, if you believe it ::), but it does happen, ...............sometimes, but most of the time it shytz the bed in short order and we, Joe Public, aren't made so aware of so-and-so who tried to "skin the cat", but rather the cat got the best of him!   :o

     For example, we had a customer with a brand new "Sportsman" block in a 10 sec. door car get just four 1/4 mile passes before it broke!   :'(  And yes, have also witnessed 'some' others go an amazing distance, though generally on tear-down one finds that they might as well just toss the hole thing in the junk-pile, if one looks close enough,............but it hadn't failed,......... yet.    ::)

     And as for the video of why the S.B.F. cracks in half..............well, that may have been one experience, and that may very well be one theory, but it alone isn't the 'real' issue based on my many observations of failures.   ;)

     Scott.

WConley

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2022, 11:31:05 PM »
In my book the 530 HP in a stock 5.0 block is not the big problem.  It's spinning a stroker rotating assembly to 7,000 rpm in a stock block.  At those speeds the "inertia load" from the piston/ rod assy on the main bearings vastly exceeds the "combustion load" that makes the horsepower.

If it was me I'd get the aftermarket block for plenty of revs without puckers.
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

blykins

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2022, 05:43:51 AM »
It is the luck of the draw I think.  The one 347 I mentioned is a 4.040 x 3.400 combo that has been going for years.  He leaves with a clutch dump at 5500 and shifts it at 7000.  It will run in the 6's or the 10's depending on which track he's at.  It uses a mid-80's 302 block.

If you're not willing to buy an aftermarket block right off the bat, see if you can find yourself a real early 302 block, or Mexican 302, etc.  I sold a fully machined Mexican 302 block to Joe Craine a few years ago that he was going to use in an EMC.  He may let it go. 

To add to Bill's point, I would also opt for lightweight rotating assembly components.   Most guys want to reach for the heaviest H-beam rod they can find.  A lot of the I-beam rods will be lighter and still take the punishment, or you can go with a Molnar/K1 rod.  Mahle and CP make some pretty light pistons as well and use the 1mm or 1.5mm rings, which are a ton lighter than some of other offerings out there. 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 05:45:22 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
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frnkeore

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2022, 12:48:55 PM »
Regarding the Mexican block, most all get almost as much as the 271 HP, K code blocks But, if your willing to do the searching, you can find some, in the early '70's PU trucks. I found one in a '71 or '72 PU.
Frank

Joey120373

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Re: 347 build for my 64.5 mustang
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2022, 02:39:41 PM »
For your build, go with Scat forged stroker kit, AFR 165 Renegade heads, Hydraulic roller with short travel lifters, Victor Jr or Super Victor ported, and 1 5/8 to 1 3/4" step headers to fit your chassis, 750 Holley/QF/or similar, Deep sump oil pan with canton windage screen.  Those AFR 165 heads will support 550hp, so don't worry about them being too small.  Joe-JDC

That’s kinda funny, the combo you suggest is pretty much exactly what I had in mind when I first started thinking about a motor for the mustang. I have since probably watched too many YouTube videos. I quickly decided the 180cc heads offered some room to grow, then I finally settled on the 195 heads. I know the 195cc heads are probably overkill, but they seem to not give up much ( at least at WOT on the dyno ) when compaired to the smaller heads.

I will keep those in mind, I was extremely impressed with those heads when the engine masters crew bolted them up to a 408, expecting them to be “ way to small “ and they kinda stole the show.