Author Topic: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson  (Read 1368 times)

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1968galaxie

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Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« on: February 03, 2022, 03:03:43 PM »
There are a few choices for hydraulic roller lifters.
For a performance oriented build 6500+ rpm.

Morel has 3 choices: #5325 (.700" wheel), #5329 (.700" wheel with short travel), and #5891 (.750" wheel) most expensive race type.
Johnson lifters also has a few choices for FE ford - somewhat more costly than the first 2 Morel lifters.
#2212BBR, #ST2212BBR (short travel), #2222BBR (with axle oiling) and #ST2222BBR (short travel with axle oiling)

I haven't heard anyone with an FE use the Johnson lifters - perhaps someone has experience with them.

Perry

blykins

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2022, 01:55:28 PM »
Too many variables here to nail down a particular lifter. 

Successful hydraulic roller lifter operation in an FE depends on a whole lot of things:  which head, which valve, which cam lobe, which rocker arm, etc. 

I have about 6 cam lobe families that I will use on FEs based on the application and how heavy the valvetrain is.  Most guys mess up real bad by pairing an aggressive lobe with a heavy valve and you'd be surprised at even how heavy an 11/32" stem valve is on FE diameters and lengths. 

With the right combination though, a standard travel Morel will get you 7000 rpm. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
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1968galaxie

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2022, 04:31:53 PM »
Thank you Brent.

Lets say one uses the Ford 3/8" valve.
Looking at CC LXL hydro roller for high ratio rockers and optimized with lower acceleration and a softer closing ramp.
Catalog mentions lobe is good for road race type engines for extended high rpm use.
One also uses a lower mass beehive spring with lightweight retainer.

Would limited travel hydro roller with the FE heavy valve help lifter issues at 6000+ rpm?

blykins

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2022, 04:49:00 PM »
Thank you Brent.

Lets say one uses the Ford 3/8" valve.
Looking at CC LXL hydro roller for high ratio rockers and optimized with lower acceleration and a softer closing ramp.
Catalog mentions lobe is good for road race type engines for extended high rpm use.
One also uses a lower mass beehive spring with lightweight retainer.

Would limited travel hydro roller with the FE heavy valve help lifter issues at 6000+ rpm?

You could try to throw a lot of spring pressure at it with short travels, but it would be much easier to use a cam lobe that's better designed for the application. 

Just because the lobe states it's for higher ratio rockers with lower acceleration and softer ramps, it's specifically for an LS engine, which uses an 8mm valve stem and a *much* lighter valve, along with a much lighter lifter, etc.  You will very quickly lose control of the valvetrain with a 3/8" stem valve and a lobe like that.

FWIW, I do use some of the LS lobes, but only on the exhaust side and only with much lighter valves. 

Back when hydraulic rollers in FE's started becoming popular, everyone was trying Xtreme Energy and XFI lobes with 3/8" stem valves.  It was very quickly apparent that an aggressive lobe just wasn't working well as all the engines would completely lose control of their faculties around 5500-5800.

You will need to lose some valve weight, pick another lobe, or both.   And as the rpm goes up, the relationship between all of the valvetrain components becomes a lot more important.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

1968galaxie

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2022, 06:58:32 PM »
Again, many thanks Brent!

A solid flat tappet is starting to look better and better.
Crower coolface lifter (edm oiling hole) or the camsaver lifter (small flat face machined on side of lifter)
I certainly don't want to spend $$$ and then have 5800 rpm drop off.




blykins

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2022, 07:13:33 PM »
Again, many thanks Brent!

A solid flat tappet is starting to look better and better.
Crower coolface lifter (edm oiling hole) or the camsaver lifter (small flat face machined on side of lifter)
I certainly don't want to spend $$$ and then have 5800 rpm drop off.

I could come up with some lobes that would let you get some rpm if you decide to go hydraulic roller. 

BTW, the Coolface is the one you need if you go solid flat tappet.  The Camsaver lifter is a hydraulic lifter.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 06:07:31 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

1968galaxie

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2022, 12:28:21 PM »
Thanks Brent,

I will certainly contact you if I choose the hydro roller route.

Camsaver lifter is available with the shell type of solid lifter for FE.
Coolface (edm pressurized hole) not possible with shell lifter.


blykins

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2022, 01:54:13 PM »
Thanks Brent,

I will certainly contact you if I choose the hydro roller route.

Camsaver lifter is available with the shell type of solid lifter for FE.
Coolface (edm pressurized hole) not possible with shell lifter.

Yep, that would be the exception.  I don't use shell lifters, so I didn't put two and two together there.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

cammerfe

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Re: Hydro roller lifter choices - Morel, Johnson
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2022, 11:27:57 PM »
My first 427, a '64, came from the factory with 'spiral' lifters. The first time I had it apart, I switched from the spiral-type to the shells. They always worked excellently for me. Then I switched to a roller with the last engine.

KS