Edelbrock spring cups

[gregaba]

I have a stupid question. On the Edelbrock heads the spring cups are .060 thick.
I don't have access to a spring checker anymore and don't know how to figure the spring rate.
With the Comp Cams spring set 930-16 it list the open pressure as 383 pounds at 1.250 inch.
I am a little concerned that I may have to much pressure on my cam lobe with these cup's.
Anybody know what pressure these will run at with the cups.
Running the Comp Cams reproduction D cam with HS rockers, POP stands, Comp retainers and keepers.
Thanks
Greg

[galaxiex]

Get a cheap spring height micrometer and install the springs at the specified closed height.


Like this...


https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/valve-spring-height-micrometers?PageSize=25&SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending

[gregaba]

I have one.I was just doing a mock up of one head when I came up with my question.
On the mock up my installed height runs from 1.89 to 2.00 so I have some adjusting to do.
Just wondered if different cup thickness are available.
Thanks
Greg

[blykins]

I can almost guarantee that you have too much spring pressure.

Without buying a spring mic, just take a machinist's rule and measure the distance in between the spring cup/locator and the spring retainer. 

My guess is that it's probably around 1.880-1.900.   At 1.900, the Comp 930 springs are 153 lbs seat.  That will wear out a traditional flat camshaft very quickly on break-in and it probably wouldn't be good for a flat tappet running after break-in, unless you have EDM lifters, tool steel lifters, or a nitrided camshaft. 

If your install height is shorter or taller than 1.900", then you can multiply the difference by 354 lbs and then add or subtract that to the 153 lb number.

For example, if you measure 1.950" as an install height, multiply .050" x 354 and then subtract that from 153 lbs.  It would be something like 135 lbs. 

You may need to look into a +.050" lock or even a retainer that gives you +.100" install height, depending on your measurement.   Most of your locators/cups are .060" thick.  That's pretty standard.   You will need a locator/cup on an aluminum head, otherwise the spring will chew the aluminum.

[Gregwill16]

Greg was the box marked with the spring pressures? I thought I had measured them, but maybe it was another set.

[gregaba]

Brent
Thanks for the information. I will use it. I had trouble installing the springs is why I asked my question. I wanted to see how everything lined up before I put it together permanent
Greg
I was going to use the springs I bought from Comp Cams as I had called them and their so call tech told me they would work fine on my set up.
I was mocking up one head yesterday and it was difficult to get the retainers on and that is what made me think I had a problem with the springs or cups.
I guess I will use your springs and put up the comp stuff up for sale.
Oh well another part bought I didn't need.
Greg 

[blykins]

FWIW, when breaking in a flat tappet cam, I usually aim for 100 lbs seat or less and less than 300 lbs open. 

[gregaba]

Thanks Brent.
I have a 50 year old set of 390 springs I was going to use. I don't know haw many miles they have on them but they should be OK for a 2500-3000 RPM break in.
Greg

[pbf777]

"...............as I had called them and their so call tech told me they would work fine on my set up."

     This is not advised, and any "tech-guy" that says "it'll be O.K." without any of the information which you do not have, isn't doing anyone any favors!   

     And this warning also includes just reading of the label on the box, with the 'assumption' that the springs within are equivalent!   

     Scott.

[GJCAT427]

 If I may ask, where did you get the repo " D" cam ?

[gregaba]

Scott
You are right on that. As to what is on the box without a spring cheaker to verify what they say we are at their mercy. All we can do is hope for the best and do what we can.
I havn't had this much trouble with springs since we had roller cams in our race car in the 80's and had to use an ultra rev kit on it. That is why I posted my question if in dough go to the expert's.
I had rather come off as a dumb ass then have to tear down the engine again because I know it all.
GJCAT427
I got the repo cam from Comp Cams
A couple of years ago an engineer at Ford found 3 of the D cams in storage at Ford still in the cosmoline.
I have lost his info but I think his name was Mike Mykonis. He was in charge of crankshaft and cam development.
He got permission from Ford to repoduce 50 of them. Sent the cams to Comp where they measured the cams with their laser machine to get an exact reproduction.
The part number is 33-000-5. I think that is just a part number for special order cams.
I don't know if they can still produce them but if you know Billy Godbolt I guess you could ask.
Greg

[Gregwill16]

     And this warning also includes just reading of the label on the box, with the 'assumption' that the springs within are equivalent!   

     Scott.

Good advice Scott. But if you are referring to my post of the box being labeled, then I'll give you some advice. You should quit assuming the rest of us are clueless.

I actually measured those springs.   

[gregaba]

I can say that i am more then happy with the heads I got from Greg. They are a good set of heads and were sold to me at a fair cost.
The springs I was refering to were the ones from Comp Cams.
I will be useing the springs that came with the heads and plan to install them today.I had all ready bought the comp springs and thoughtI would use them since they were new. Bad decision on my part.
Greg

[Gregwill16]

You did the right thing Greg, and your intuition was correct. You suspected something wasn't right with the setup for the Comp springs, so you reached out for advice.

[GJCAT427]

 Gregaba, His name is Mike Kopmanis, I bought both the "B" and the "D" cams from him.  I run an original "B" in my 56 F100  427 powered pick up. The "D" is going in a 63 427 Galaxie Tunnel port. Mike has a hunting camp 40 miles from me in northwestern PA. I`m in western NY 30 miles from Erie Pa. Never met him yet , but hoping to meet him at Beaver Springs some time.