nitrous oxide

[mike7570]

.i got in a street race last week with a sbc nova.we stayed side buy side till my big block finally started pullig ahead.if i would of had my nitrous up and running i would have used it as a scramble button to pull way ahead.knock on wood.im 6 for 6 on the local streets with my new motor.but im running other cars of the same caliber.no big dogs,just gt mustangs,camaros etc.

Maybe the quote should of been to have a spare car ready! Now I have been in street races before but none since the '70s when the streets were a lot more empty and no one drove around on cell phones.  While I will punch it now and then for a short distance I certainly wouldn't engage in a street race these days. Lot's of places will impound and sell off the cars of people caught street racing and forget about renewing your insurance. Better to bait the other cars and arrange to meet them at the local track. You can have a lot of fun on a grudge night and if you bring sticky tires and are good on the lights you can even take out cars that are faster than you.
just my 2cents

[pbf777]

From my humble opinion, it looks like you’ve covered your bases well.  100 h.p. kit is not going to hurt anything, maybe the asphalt will feel punished a bit is all.

     At the cubic inch capacity, if in sound condition, if in a proper state of tune now, you follow the directions, install the "kit" properly, establish sufficient fuel delivery, at 100 H.P., you should have no problems, other than refilling the bottle!   

     At this H.P. level, again, if in a proper state of tune now, even a timing retard sum should not be required; remember, the "kits" (particularly "novice kits") are jetted overly rich intentionally to actually reduce the operating cylinder temperature.   

     There is increased load on components, so if your engine is ready for the junk yard then well.................

     In the late '70's worked with Marvin Miller (of M.M. N2O, remember him?    ) , we came up with the first N20 "Cheater" plate system (this was before Nitrous Oxide Systems existed) with my own drill bits (no jets yet!  ) going back & forth with calculations for area & flow sums, taking his 75 H.P. plate up to.......(?); well, my F350 4 X 4 (1-ton) P.U. with 400 engine (167 H.P.), C6 and 14" x 36" x 16.5" (big in the day  !) tires ran 14.30's in the quarter (O.K. not a great accomplishment, but otherwise it ran in the low to mid 20's, with out a headwind   !).  After we establish values for the "Cheater" kits, I proceeded to see just how far I could go with N2O injection and I actually got to the point of pressuring the intake causing the carburetor to shut-down which didn't work very well.   

     I had tired of the constant requirement for bottle refilling (in those days one turned their bottle in to the filling station, who then had to ship it to another town to be filled and back, this all requiring a week  !), and for my off-road excursions (greater durations of nitrous operation...even minutes vs. seconds   !), I adopted a 55-pound bottle (steel, yes it was heavy, but so what, it's mounted in a one-ton truck   !) behind the seat, that at times I would be 'on-the-juice" for so long the the 55-pound steel bottle, as big and heavy as it was (if I recall about 180 lbs.; was a mother to load in the truck by one person......me   !) would frost!   

     The only failure the engine suffered was a melted exhaust valve head that 'flowed' out the exhaust port.  I pulled the one head, had Fred Kinney @ BoLaws Automotive R & R the one valve, total cost was $12.55, I think the cheapest anyone ever was billed by the establishment, and I was back in business!  It was funny, when I presented the cylinder head to Fred on the bench, he looked at the carbon in the cylinder chambers which had all formed into little spheres (looks like little balls of mercury only black and hard as rock .) he said what the heck is that (remember nitrous was not common at this time)?  That's what happens after five or so minutes amounting to 40 or so pounds of constant nitrous operation; I said I was attempting to make artificial diamonds!   

      And, the 400 had the stock cast pistons without a failure!   

      Oh, but on the nitrous, due avoid the rev-limiter, as though possible, hopefully not an induction back-fire, but it sure can be hard on the exhaust system (the mufflers just open up at the seams   !)

      Scott.

 

[fryedaddy]

that last reply makes me feel a lot better.i will just be using it for a few seconds with some good forged alu pistons and you used it for minutes with cast pistons.i may turn my rev limiter off and just keep my eye on the rpms to help avoid backfire.thanks for all the replies.i feel a lot better informed now and some of you have my confidence built up.

[fryedaddy]

.i got in a street race last week with a sbc nova.we stayed side buy side till my big block finally started pullig ahead.if i would of had my nitrous up and running i would have used it as a scramble button to pull way ahead.knock on wood.im 6 for 6 on the local streets with my new motor.but im running other cars of the same caliber.no big dogs,just gt mustangs,camaros etc.

Maybe the quote should of been to have a spare car ready! Now I have been in street races before but none since the '70s when the streets were a lot more empty and no one drove around on cell phones.  While I will punch it now and then for a short distance I certainly wouldn't engage in a street race these days. Lot's of places will impound and sell off the cars of people caught street racing and forget about renewing your insurance. Better to bait the other cars and arrange to meet them at the local track. You can have a lot of fun on a grudge night and if you bring sticky tires and are good on the lights you can even take out cars that are faster than you.
just my 2cents

i would never race in the city streets,all the locals meet in the country where we have a 1/4 mile marked off,no houses for miles,law dont like to go to there unless they have to.in the winter we would build a bon fire on the side of the road and race all night,if cops did come they would stop,back up and turn around and leave.i got caught making a hit down the road about 1 mile from my house.i blasted through the gears not knowing he was behind me.i told my son who was with me that i might be going to jail.all the cop said was you need to take that thing down to the county road.he knew about the spot.the track is fun too.i got lucky the first time i took it to the track i got down to 4 cars before i missed 3rd gear with my 4 speed and got inched at the finish line.semi finals first time out

[e philpott]

We just installed a 100 shot on a 15 Mustang v6 , got the car from his wife but has a neighbor with a 18 Camero that he could only keep up with to 70 mph and then fall back, I haven’t heard back yet but it least he hasn’t called back wanting a 150 shot

[cammerfe]

Probably the man with the most experience with 'spray' is Barry. I'd have a talk with him.

My first 'bottle-fed' experiment was back in the late '70s. I was running a turbo and decided to use the bottle instead of building an intercooler system. I also decided to run methanol with the spray system. Use a completely dedicated system with a five gallon fuel cell to hold the alcohol. Used a return design with a fuel pressure-based bypass to return the extra fuel. Electric pump solely for the methanol. This was a purely street vehicle.

I used the same basic layout on my land speed car, but that was not turbo'd. I was sponsored by NX during that time and they were very good about suggestions. They supply an instruction manual that's more than 100 pages long, and are always happy to talk. I used a nozzle system mounted just before the throttle body and had jets and plumbing able to produce in excess of 500 HP. The combo I used to set the records, (4X in one day) only supplied a bit less than a 200 'bump' but it was good enough to set a record in E/F Comp Coupe/Sedan that still stands. This is one mile standing start on concrete with ECTA sanction.

You may not want to go to the extra effort of using methanol, but it is VERY forgiving. Methanol has an anti-knock rating of about 120 octane and can be run VERY rich. Down close to 4-to-1. It just makes more power the richer you make it. But beware of  the possibility of hydraulic-locking a cylinder. Due to the properties of methanol, I simply put in one step colder plugs and didn't bother with timing changes.

KS

[Phil Brown]

No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃

[pbf777]

No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃

     BUT!   

I also decided to run methanol with the spray system.

     Scott.

[Blueoval77]

Having run countless bottles through cars over the years the first and most overlooked thing is . IS THE CAR PREPARED 100 HP isnt much but it wont end there , never does . But even at 100HP depending on how hot the thing is already you are throwing a ton more at the car. Axles , rear , trans ? Ive seen plenty of broken parts that had survived countless passes before the kit was installed  . Is this just for fun with street tires or are you gonna hook this thing up and try to get some numbers on the board ? Driveshaft ? Loop ? I think you get the point . Is the car itself prepared for what you are about to do to it. A good plate system can be pretty violent which is why I might ad the part that makes it so addictive.
As far as the engine itself .
You really should open up the ring gaps on the pistons altho I will say I have done it up to a 250 shot with OEM ring gaps and cast pistons  , Im not recommending that as there was alcohol involved and a fair amount of prior knowledge of running NOS on a car. Im just saying that for reference . Nitrous gets a bad wrap not because of it but because of the people that tried to use it and didnt take the steps you are trying to take.

Fuel , As mentioned you need plenty of fuel on both sides . Ive always run a carb that was a bit fat and then a separate fuel system with pressure guage for the N2O. Being too fat is always safer even if it is knocking a bit of performance off of it.

Timing , Ive always gone with a baseline of 4 degrees for every 100 added but thats not a set in stone thing. There are other factors aside from whats being added such as compression. Timing as well as a lean condition can kill quickly so be conservative with your numbers. Dont tune this thing for maximum output right off the bat . Tune it to be safe. If you cant safely run it over and over again you really cant get a good handle on anything right ?

Plugs . This is another thing not set in stone but colder colder colder. If you burn any electrodes you have something wrong. Back up the timing and if that doesnt do it back the plugs up a little more.

Wiring. This is another overlooked thing and ive seen many failures do to crappy wiring. Wire this system like you are working for NASA . All high quality wire and soldered connections . Dont leave a single part of it that you might feel is not quite up to snuff . You of course need an "Armed" switch and I prefer a light somewhere yelling at you that its armed . And I prefer to use a throttle activated switch . I dont care for the micro switches and prefer the leash type switches that the throttle is pulling against and you adjust it so that the right amount of throttle activates it. Then you can run interrupt switches like for instance for a clutch .

Controller . Do some controller research and you wont regret it . Controllers really took all of the fun out of it in a way and made it very scientific and docile. Its really your baby sitter and keeps you from screwing up . You really get the most out of a system using a controller. I wasnt for them at the beginning when they were new as it added some complexity but they are well worth the extra hassle.

With all that said. Remember that the engine you have there might be 25 HP shy of spitting a rod bolt out  . I dont know how hot it is already but maybe its 75 HP away from splitting the block ? My point is that N2O gets blamed for all those failures as well but it was just a case of the parts being over powered . Even if you are meticulously careful with the system you always run that risk .
Nitrous is a ton of fun in my opinion and as far as bang for the buck it cannot be beat ! Just remember its only going to be as safe and reliable as the work you put into the system .

[fryedaddy]

thank you Blueoval,that is all the stuff i have been waiting to hear! my carb is allready fat,just upgraded flywheel,clutch,trans,rear.engine is a good 450+HP maybe a little more,never dynoed.im using 4 speed and wot switch,what did you mean interrupt switch for the clutch? my son is wiring it up for me.he has rolls of quality wire he ordered.not bragging because he is my son,just stating a fact,he is one hell of a electrician. and he is a perfectionist.im an older man and i will be mostly playing with it on the streets.i was thinking about throwing my  bigger jets away.i wont be using them.my limit for this engine is 100.its well built at the machine shop of a ford guy in his late 60s.who has raced fords for over 40 years.it might hold a 250 shot many times but im not looking to come anywhere near maxing out. can you explain what the controller does too.i understand the risks involved.i could throw a big solid cam in it and head work and i could lose an engine,many ways to blow one up.i have never been a finger pointer.if things happen to me its bad luck or my fault.i would never talk bad about any power adder.i have been a race fan since i was 5 or 6 when i went to the track and watched my dad and uncle race.i got my first fe when i was 12.a 390 out of a 63 gal moonshine car.it had a nice 2 4bbl intake on it.i put it in my comet for a few years.it outran all my buddies in school.

[cammerfe]

No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃

     BUT!   

I also decided to run methanol with the spray system.

Thank you for the emphasis. It's exactly the point I was making. I'd never attempt the stuff I did (and will do) if I were to be running the best of race gas. By the way, not mentioned above is that the entire engine fuel system had been optimized for, and ran on, C16. I was a bit leery of the strength of the transmission, as well, and although the spray system was completely ready to go, I didn't click the switch until I'd shifted into third, and I didn't purge the nitrous oxide line before starting the run. This had the effect of softening the 'hit'.

KS

     Scott.

[Blueoval77]

Again , Im not sure what you are doing with this thing . I am guilty of not reading this entire thread so forgive me . You could put 250 HP pills in the plate and the controller can bring in as little or as much as you like for as long as you like . A controller can bring in 50HP From activation to 3 seconds lets say and then 100 from 3 to 7 then on and on and on.... Or , lets say it takes that car 12 seconds to be in 4th gear . You can set it to bring that 100 in at 12 seconds  or a softer 50 at 12 seconds and then ramp up over the next few seconds. You get the idea and its been a few years since I myself have played with them so they may even offer a massage after the race at this point... Do some reading and dont skimp on that either.
As for the interrupt . I dont know how you shift the car but I myself am a no lift shift kinda guy . If you have an interrupt in the system it can deactivate each time the clutch is depressed . Again , this is tough with microswitches so find the switch that has a leash on it and its far easier to tune. The reason is the same as the throttle . The micro switch has to be right at the end of travel and that can be unreliable because they are so small and mounting and etc etc. When its pulling a leash (Or tether) to activate or deactivate you have an easier time and its more reliable.
Having the timing retard itself is also nice . That way the car isnt a complete turd running around late in time because you mechanically dropped it back.Then when the system is activated it retards on its own . Of course test all of this with the car running and the bottle and fuel turned off. See with your own eyes that its doing what it should do.
No mistakes..... Mistakes KILL engines with N2O.... Each and every time ive seen a grenaded engine over the years on a car that was using it it was something overlooked or something failed in the system that was done right . In the very early days I had a machinist (Because he had the right size drills) open every one of my fuel pills a touch larger .
On that note I should have included in the first post. If you activate the system and you do not feel it come in LET OFF , DEACTIVATE , something isnt right and something not right will end badly.
Hope this helps....

[fryedaddy]

Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?

[fryedaddy]

Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?

last question above

[Phil Brown]

Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?

Yea, that type of a setup will work that way. A lot of guys have done it that way