Oil slinger needed

[jayb]

Yes, in a lot of situations I’d rather have the springs oiled and oil kept away from the crank.

Everyone keeps saying how the rocker tins are so important for getting oil back to the pan, but did Jay make provisions for them on his new head design?  I don't see any provision for them on any of the race head/rocker systems (such as Blue Thunder heads that use T&D paired rockers, etc.) either.   Seems to me that on an engine that's going to be turning a lot of rpms for a longer period of time, you'd want the oil back in the pan.....

I think the assumption is that when you are building an engine that is substantially higher in performance than stock, a deeper oil pan and more oil volume in the pan is normal.  In that case, the rocker tins probably wouldn't have much of an effect.

My new head design does not use the factory rocker mounting locations, so there is no way the tins could be used.

[blykins]

Yes, in a lot of situations I’d rather have the springs oiled and oil kept away from the crank.

Everyone keeps saying how the rocker tins are so important for getting oil back to the pan, but did Jay make provisions for them on his new head design?  I don't see any provision for them on any of the race head/rocker systems (such as Blue Thunder heads that use T&D paired rockers, etc.) either.   Seems to me that on an engine that's going to be turning a lot of rpms for a longer period of time, you'd want the oil back in the pan.....

I think the assumption is that when you are building an engine that is substantially higher in performance than stock, a deeper oil pan and more oil volume in the pan is normal.  In that case, the rocker tins probably wouldn't have much of an effect.

My new head design does not use the factory rocker mounting locations, so there is no way the tins could be used.

Which pump did you use in your oil level testing?

[Joe-JDC]

Just a reminder that many of the intake manifolds from Ford, and the aftermarket did not make provisions at the front for good oil drain back passages on the underside of the intake manifold.  I am working on a new BBM Tunnel Wedge, and there is absolutely nothing at the front for oil drain back but the thickness of an intake gasket on either side.  The rear drain back area is off a bit, also, so it would not surprise me to see problems down the road with this if folks don't recognize the problem, and grind a small oil drain at the front of the intake.  The metal is very thin there, so it is going to be dicey to make it safe.  Oh, and I use the slingers on the engines that used them from the factory.  Joe-JDC

[FE4SPDMustang]

I hope my statement didn't start a Mexican stand-off on slinger use. I used the billet double roller chain set.There was no mention to delete the slinger. I also have all the improved work for drain-back, including the shaping and direction to the hole in the front of the block that returns to the oil pan from the lifter valley.

It just made sense to me that you wouldn't want excess oil around a seal and knowing there is a lot of return from the valvetrain I presumed it wound up quite oil saturated behind the timing cover.
I am a why person too by nature. If you're deleting something from the factory I like to know why.

Again, I certainly hope I didn't stir the pot.. Too much.

[blykins]

I hope my statement didn't start a Mexican stand-off on slinger use. I used the billet double roller chain set.There was no mention to delete the slinger. I also have all the improved work for drain-back, including the shaping and direction to the hole in the front of the block that returns to the oil pan from the lifter valley.

It just made sense to me that you wouldn't want excess oil around a seal and knowing there is a lot of return from the valvetrain I presumed it wound up quite oil saturated behind the timing cover.
I am a why person too by nature. If you're deleting something from the factory I like to know why.

Again, I certainly hope I didn't stir the pot.. Too much.

It's not you. 

It's like this on every forum. 

Go to any Ford forum you can find and search on if the oil slinger is necessary or not.  It's split 50/50, on pretty much every forum, except the BBF forum, where the slingers rub the double roller chains and cause shrapnel.  There'll you'll find a pretty unanimous response LOL

Every once in awhile we get into this discussion about the factory rocker tins.   Guys like to poke me because they know I have a very stout stance on what I do, and that's fine.  But you'll also see me tell them to do whatever they feel is comfortable. 

All-in-all, it's not a personal argument and if I saw these guys in public, I'd give them a hard handshake and buy them a Mt. Dew.

[winr1]

FE4SPDMustang, more of a Seas d'fhód ..... 


Never hammer directly on chain or sprockets.. heh   




Ricky.

[jayb]

Which pump did you use in your oil level testing?

The engine was my 428CJ dyno mule, which uses a Precision Oil Pumps high volume pump.  This engine was also equipped with a stock pan, the stock windage tray, and six quarts of oil.

[winr1]

Jay ... did ya put a sight glass on a pan an ran on dyno ??

Cant remember ...




Ricky.

[jayb]

Yes Ricky, that's exactly what I did.  Pictures are in my book if you have a copy...

[cjshaker]

If I recall correctly, Jay also made a video of the oil level drop in the pan during a dyno pull. That was a little bit of an eye opener for me. I don't have the link to the video.

[blykins]

Is it this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y28pPcml59U

[Stangman]

Its odd that as soon as they get off the motor the level goes down alot

[blykins]

Its odd that as soon as they get off the motor the level goes down alot

That happens every time with every engine.  You can watch it in the car or on the dyno, when you're on the gas hard and then lift all of a sudden. 

[HarleyJack17]

Oil and oil control seems to get the blood boiling at every mention HAHAHA.

FE4SPDMustang, I like your thought process on the block. In building my 445 I did the same thing to all four corners of the china wall.  I made sure to "mold" a channel into it.  That point is always a leak point that needs addressed. With Joe on the intake too. I did a little work on mine as I did not like what I saw and bet this gets over looked a lot!

A lot of oil ends up on top.  I really wanted to open the drain back holes up, or reduce the diameter of the head bolts but did not want to chance hitting water, or make a weak bolt. I do know many have done the bolt trick with no ill effects. In a perfect world I feel addressing the drain back in this way, coupled with restricting the flow up stairs would be the best of all, but it is just my opinion.  On the next one, I will use that approach.  The easiest band-aid is to run more oil.

Anytime you can keep oil away from a seal or gasket is a win. No denying that on any motor. But given the effort required to fix a front seal, I would always recommend proper installation along with a new spacer Brent stated  Not like you can just pop the balancer off and replace the seal.  That would have been a smart move FORD!  I will say this, anytime a manufacturer can save a dime, they will. So I would have to think the Purchasing Dept. and the Engineers may have went around and around about the tins and oil slingers HAHAHA. 

The plastic coated gears still amaze me. I am guessing for less shock on the chain/wear/noise/over come variances?  There had to a reason(s). Hard to bath something in oil that is not metal and expect it to last but then again, I don't think these old vehicles were expected to last, though they did.

[blykins]

I will say this, anytime a manufacturer can save a dime, they will. So I would have to think the Purchasing Dept. and the Engineers may have went around and around about the tins and oil slingers HAHAHA. 

My guess is that's what happened around 1978.  The oil slingers disappeared from Ford engines.  Either the seal technology got better, or crankcase ventilation/vacuum got better, or they determined that they really didn't do much.   Maybe all of the above.