Water/Methanol injection

[AlanCasida]

Anyone have experience running a carbureted high compression n/a motor on pump gas using water/meth injection? I am considering running around 12:1 static compression on a street(DragWeek) motor. I've read a little on the subject but have no experience with it.

[cammerfe]

I assembled a 427 for my '67 Cougar with parts I 'scrounged'. The pistons I got were really too much of a pop-up for the early heads I used and even with Sunoco 260 I had problems running enough advance---I had regular ping. I got an early system to install water/alcohol squirted into the carb through a little spray nozzle. I found that I could buy isopropyl alcohol from the local drugstore in case lots for about twenty five cents a pint and used it straight. The system used an aftermarket windshield washer pump for pressure and triggered by a switch connected to the carb linkage. The much more sophisticated systems available now---such as 'SNOW', will do a much better job, I'm sure.

For what it's worth, I use an NX 'spray' system along with a straight methanol auxiliary fuel delivery to run E/F Competition Coupe/Sedan in ECTA land speed racing. I set, and hold now the record in that class. Methanol is a wonder fuel in an internal combustion engine.

KS

[mmason]

I have the Snow Performance system. The way it works is that the system should not be activated until after 3000 rpm and then only after your vacuum drops below a certain set amount. Then it comes on progressively that is preset by you. I find that you can do a lot of street driving and and the system will never come on. My opinion is that it is a good helper but I would not depend on it with 12:1 compression for street driving.

[Leny Mason]

We are looking at putting a system on my blown Comet I have heard it helps a lot with detonation, and Cammerfe i would like to hear and see pictures of your Bonneville car I have a friend that runs a injected turbo ed straight Buick. Leny Mason 

[Faron]

My new Blown combo is 10.25-1 with my Blower , I have a Snow system that I will be using , will give feedback , I belive the two ( blower on low boost along with the water meth and 10.25-1 ) will be a great combo ) , Ive been driving the car on pump 93 and it is way more  responsive than the old combo ( 6.75-4 and high boost 12.5 lbs ) I have been just driving havent used more than 1/3 throttle , but that will change come the end of May ( or before ) :-)

[Katz427]

I have not tried it, based on , I was told that the extra moisture from a methanol/ water mix caused​ corrosion inside the engine. I assume this might happen if you're occasionally running the engine and moisture builds up in the crankcase/ oil. Changed the oil more frequently too. Anyone have experience with this yes or no?

[Tommy-T]

I have a Snow water/meth system on my blown Mustang. I seems to work well, and is pretty easy to dial in the progressive amounts water/meth once you get the hang of the controller.

To be honest, I've been running 100LL avgas and 8 lbs. of boost since I built the motor. The Snow system makes me feel safer since I beat it like a red-haired-step-child every time I take it out. The system starts injecting at 3 lbs. of boost and is full on at 5 lbs.

I have seen no evidence of corrosion in my blower case or anywhere else since I've been pushing water/meth under my carburetors.

[Leny Mason]

Tommy is your snow system  a newer system I think I am going to but one on my Comet, and what do you think about having more valve spring pressure  on a super charged FE . Leny Mason

[Tommy-T]

Leny

My Snow system is 4 years old. My hope is that the newer kit comes with a bigger controller so clumsy, blind, old farts with fat fingers can use it.
I saw your valve spring pressure post. There's guys WAY smarter that me on it...especially with Cammer experiance...so I'm not going there.

I can tell you I have been a user of the Isky 8005A valve spring since the '80's. They are on the Edelbrock heads on my blown car and that motor will go past 6500 in a blink.

[cammerfe]

We are looking at putting a system on my blown Comet I have heard it helps a lot with detonation, and Cammerfe i would like to hear and see pictures of your Bonneville car I have a friend that runs a injected turbo ed straight Buick. Leny Mason

Leny, I set the records (and still hold them) in East Coast Timing Association races that were held, at the time, on an airport outside of Maxton, North Carolina. It was a thousand miles closer than going to Bonneville. We run one mile and have complete reciprocity with the SCTA that runs Bonneville. We were also having meets every month in the summer instead of  two meets a year at B'ville.

I don't have pictures I can post here, but if you were to go to the 'Lincoln v Cadillac' website and scroll down to the sub-section labeled 'LS Performance', look for the series of posts called 'Land Speed LS' and then go down to entry #11, you will see a host of pictures I posted there at the time.

The venue for this next season is going to be an airport in Arkansas. I'm going to a blown engine sourced from a Jaguar---the factory engine is a four-cam V-8 and is a Jaguar design---and when I get it finished, I'll be running in E/BF Competition Coupe/Sedan. It's great fun---i went, the first time just to spectate and found that the atmosphere there was much like going to the drags back in the late '50s and early/mid '60s. So I made a couple of runs. Then I got serious and spent a bunch of money. I finally set four records on the last day of the last meet of the year.

KS

[cjshaker]

Alan, with the right cam, and a light foot, I'm not sure you'd even need it for Drag Week. I've talked with Blair about this for my current engine build. There are several guys who run that high during Drag Week with no issues. Scott Miller comes to mind and has done fine without using anything, and I'm pretty sure Jay's compression is this high as well. A really good head chamber and a good cooling system would help a lot.

My next engine will be 12:1, and I don't plan on using anything. If I get into a high load area, like steep hills on a hot day, I think I'd just toss in a few gallons of high octane if I run into a problem.

[jayb]

I've run anywhere from 11.5:1 to14.5:1 on my car during Drag Week.  Based on my experience it is hard to compensate for 14.5:1, but I've run 13.5:1 a couple times successfully.  I always try to keep the DCR down at about 8.5:1, so if you are running a high static compression you need a big cam to stay in that DCR range.  You can also mix in some race gas, back off the timing, etc.  But when I won my class in 2015 the compression ratio in my big SOHC was 13.4:1, DCR was 8.6:1, and I ran 93 octane unleaded premium between tracks with no trouble.  I did get one bad tank of gas that caused the engine to ping a little.  Also, I kept my foot out of it when running on the street, and swapped in race gas at the track.

[olman]

Years ago I used a water/methanol injection setup on my 75 ford pickup. It had a 428 in it from a 66 Mercury Marauder. It was made by Edelbrock and called a vari-jection unit. Worked very well and used windshield wiper fluid. Removed the heads after a few years for a valve job and they were almost spotless, no carbon buildup anywhere and no signs of corrosion or rust. Truck was ran around fifty miles daily to and from work.
   Sure wish Edelbrock still made one.

[Coreyc619]

Yes I have.  Tad over 12:1 with a tight cam that built a lot of cylinder pressure, enough that the damn thing would diesel a little when you turned the key off most summer days (on 93) unless you ran the carbs dry.  420" or so SBC and a healthy dose of nitrous, timing locked at 36° because stereotype Chevy nitrous guy.  He tried WOT switch etc and was having no luck... I tapped the input on the digital 7 for a window switch basically, and had the system active around 2800 RPM.  I bought a buck transducer off Amazon to supply the constant 5v to a factory GM 2 bar MAP sensor, and used the kPa readings to dial in how much meth/water came in, and when.  It wasn't exactly easy to get right from a tuning standpoint but it damned sure was fun.  I started with jetting the carb up on race gas and used a wide band... Had it starting to go "lean" mod range on up (13.5:1 or so) without knock ping etc.  We then switched to pump and meth/water, and basically tuned from there.  Most of the meth system components came from a company called "pro meth" - the guy posts on yellow bullet occasionally, and we used the "sleeper" setup I believe it's called... Basically, if you're a good enough carb guy to own a pin vice drill bit set and actually understand the air circuit, you'll be able to pull it off.  I bought the kit from the guy recently and intend to run it on my FE build. The kit is in the attic or I'd post pics... Won't be coming down til I get my heads/other junk back from Blair.  I'm shooting for mid 11s up to 12 on static, and 93 octane. I'm also planning to run a not so small cam, but I left that decision up to him. Personally, I think he's probably the best Ford guy in the country, that (almost) nobody has ever heard of. Well, except those of us that like rear mains that leak and having to scrub that little oil drip off the head,  under the valve cover rail, every time we wash the car..

Honestly ^^^ was a hell of a lot more challenging to tune than the boosted "street" setups I've had a hand in.  Then again, I couldn't just change a few numbers in a table and/or multiply the whole damn thing by a half percent at a time. Just took time and patience, as does any truly good tune up. Definitely not my first rodeo, but was *almost* fun to get my ass kicked for a few weeks.