FlowKooler water pump real world data

[Falcon67]

First thing - 160 is too cold.  Put a 195 in there.  I have used FlowKooler pumps on all my street, street/strip builds and never had an issue.  BUT - also used a large as possible radiator and a large deep flute fan (similar to the picture above).  "Salad shooter" because those stainless blades are sharp and scary. 

I have run a 500 HP 351C on the street using a FLowkooler pump, 195 t-stat, 18" fan and a proper shroud.  3500~4000 stall and no overheating problems.  If you are driving it and it gets hot, you are not moving enough air or your working fluid is not removing heat from then engine.  4 core radiator are trash IMHO, a dual 1" core aluminum with the proper fan, shroud and hot water will run rings around a dense fin 4 core.  Been there, tried that - seen it not work.  I scrapped a custom 4 core copper/brass about the size used for a FE that would not cool a 302 in traffic. 

[turbohunter]

 I don’t think anyone mentioned 160 degrees being a good running temp. I would agree with you on the 160 t stat. However, you’re not sitting in LA traffic on 109 degree days. Getting the flow going early can be the difference in making it to work or not. I know, I know the t stat has no bearing on engine running temp. BUT if you can keep it cooler for a few miles that can make a difference here.
I may agree with you on the 4 row but that’s the next part of the experiment.
This is a car that I recently bought so I’m learning what it wants/needs.
Today was a hot day and I had a later in time to work got up to 205ish sitting in traffic. That’s one heck of a lot better than before.

[cjshaker]

I scrapped a custom 4 core copper/brass about the size used for a FE that would not cool a 302 in traffic. 

Copper is a better thermal conductor than aluminum. That's not an opinion, it's scientific fact. While I agree that a dense 4 row radiator doesn't allow enough airflow, suggesting that part of the problem was due to it being copper/brass is not correct. I have no problem with a 3 row brass/copper radiator in my 500 HP FE Mustang, and that's in a tight engine compartment with a factory shroud and "salad shooter" fan. The only time it showed signs of not being able to keep up was on a very hot day while stuck in a mile long BAD traffic jam during Drag Week. It took at least 20-30 minutes to get through that mile, and I was about to pull over because it was nearing 220, which still isn't terrible but it made me uncomfortable. I managed to hit the interstate on-ramp without pulling over and everything was fine from then on.

Marc, 205 sounds like you've made a heck of a difference. That's well within a comfort zone. Hopefully that's the last of your problems.

[turbohunter]

Yeah Doug it just feels very different. It’s reacting on the front side of the curve now like it should.
I have a beautiful 3 row rad at home for the next step. I’m gonna run it like this for a while but when the air cools down I’ll throw in a 180 t stat.

[Heo]

I'm with Doug on the copper is a better conductor
it helps a lot on a stock radiator to flush out 40 years
of dead flies and dirt and grime  that got stuck in between
the tubes
We have had and still have the hottest and driest summer
in 260 years ( i know 90 degrees are a bit chilly for some of you )
Idling on the Cruise night for half an hour this weekend with stock
radiator and the fourblade stock  fan was  no problem.

[cjshaker]

Heo brings up a good point that I was going to mention in my DW update; when I pulled the freeze plugs out of the block, I was a little surprised by the amount of crud that had built up in the bottom of the blocks water jackets. I decided to seal the engine up, turn it on each side and picked and flushed each side out until I got clear water running out. They turned out pretty clean, but the amount of heavy crud that was left on the ground was fairly substantial. Here's a shot of just the heavy chunks that the water hadn't flushed away. It's hard to understand just how much "sludge" I flushed out, that got washed away by the water, unless you were there to see it.

[Heo]

Sometimes, when i have a car that have problem
with geting warm inside in the winter. Same problem
bad thermal exchange. I drop two dishwasher tablets
in the radiator, drive for a couple of hours and flush
out the heater core, radiator, engine. And the amount
of mud you get out is shocking. And you have the car
warm and cosy again

[cammerfe]

The Flow-Kooler 'secret' is that they pop-rivet a flat sheet-metal disc to the stamped-steel impeller that's close to ubiquitous these days. Doing so makes the impeller more functional. It used to be that they'd sell the disc and a couple of pop-rivets as a kit.

Edelbrock started selling waterpumps for FE engines and the first output had the same stamped impellers. If you have an early one, you might check as to what's in yours.

Dove pumps were differently shaped inside the casting and used a close copy of the Ford Performance small block impeller they'd designed for Trans-Am racing. With that design, pump cavitation and resultant flow loss didn't begin until above 7000 RPM. Yet low RPM flow was excellent.

I put a Dove pump on my '63 Effie and put on an electric fan at the same time. I had a manual switch on the fan and, driving it almost totally in Metro Detroit, I probably didn't use the fan once a week.

KS

[turbohunter]

Not disputing you Ken but why would they show these impellers?
Obviously not FE. Now you have me curious.

[Falcon67]

>However, you’re not sitting in LA traffic on 109 degree days.
I tested by 351C street engine temps idling in the driveway in 100F weather.  I run a 195 in the door car, at the track in summer the ground runs 135+.  Track temp last race was 157F.

>Copper is a better thermal conductor than aluminum. That's not an opinion, it's scientific fact.
True.  But - go look under the hood of any car build in the last 20 years or so and show me a copper/brass radiator. 

I have talked personally with a cooling engineer from Griffen - his words were "Hot water = cool engine".  And that people continue to think that running their engines "cold" is the way to extract heat.  Heat exchange is more efficient when the working fluid is hotter and the temp differential is greater.  Why your house AC unit works poorly when it's 60F outside but you get 23+ delta in the vents when it's 90F.  An aluminum dual core radiator with typical 1" tubes has more surface area to extract heat than the older style 60s radiator.  Get the water hot and push air over the tubes and it'll pull big heat out of the motor.

[babybolt]

Flowcooler started out with the flat disc mated to a stock stamped impeller but in the last several years have gone to the billet impellers shown above.

[mbrunson427]

Flowcooler started out with the flat disc mated to a stock stamped impeller but in the last several years have gone to the billet impellers shown above.

Yes, the two I've pulled apart have had that purple impeller, shown in the 3rd picture down.

[cjshaker]

>Copper is a better thermal conductor than aluminum. That's not an opinion, it's scientific fact.
True.  But - go look under the hood of any car build in the last 20 years or so and show me a copper/brass radiator. 

If you want to use a plastic radiator, by all means, go ahead 
You also conveniently left out the massive airflow that is used in modern cars to cool them.

We're talking about thermal conductivity. Just because aluminum and plastic is used to keep things light and cheap doesn't mean it's a better conductor of heat. I've watched plenty of people shell out big bucks for an aluminum radiator, thinking that would end their overheating problems, only to find out it didn't change anything. Most all of us here know by now that you have to look at it as a system, water flow vs air flow vs heat transference (or surface area). If you have the air flow and water flow, any decently designed copper or aluminum radiator should get the job done, provided it has enough surface area for the HP rating.

[My427stang]

Copper certainly has better thermal conductivity, that is a fact, but so much more goes into it than that.  Fin design, space between the tubes, size of the tubes.  Even with all that, a radiator isn't there to radiate, it's there as a heat sink for air to flow over, so IMHO, yes unpainted copper is about 40-50% better at simple heat conductivity, but I think that difference is a smaller component to the mix over air flow.  They may even be closer to each other when slathered with thick black paint

I have used all kinds and never saw the real heat problems until living in Vegas, and there, it was more about airflow than radiator material in my experience.

As far as the Flow Koolers, I do think the original was just a plate to buy with 3  rivets, then the pump came pre-modified with the plate, but as I understand they have gone beyond that now, as shown by the pictures and Mike's comments.  They look pretty good, but I also haven't had any issues with Edelbrocks either.  Another thing to always look at is pulley ratio.  1:1 minimum on most street cars, and depending how high you spin it, overdriving the fan and pump can be a benefit too.  Rarely is slowing it down a good idea

[cammerfe]

Not disputing you Ken but why would they show these impellers?
Obviously not FE. Now you have me curious.

You're obviously showing a third generation, of which I was unaware. Pretty fancy looking!

KS