Steel End Support Stands for C4EA-F Factory Ford High Riser Heads

[blykins]

It's been a couple of years since I built that particular engine with the T&D rockers, so I don't remember the dimensions.  I looked up a YouTube video that showed partial progress and about the only thing I can say is that the stand stud stuck up past the rocker stand by a good piece.  Typically there's only enough stud to get full thread engagement on the washer and nut (and sometimes just the nut), but this one showed to have about a 1/2" sticking up past the nut.  Best I can do LOL

[XR7]

I think it is hard to talk with manufacturers at times... I have asked specific questions and had issues with answers a few times, and in the end it is just communication. Some times they get hung up about something and can't understand what you are asking even though it should be simple. Basically they are talking apples and we are asking about oranges, it is frustrating for sure. My guess is they are stuck on saying it is .450 higher than OEM, but likely that the high riser is plus .450 VERSUS the medium riser... just a guess. I have used several T&D rocker assemblies on high risers but they have all been Blue Thunder heads not Ford or Dove, they are totally different and not interchangeable so can't help you there. I am thinking their street rockers would work for you if they have a specific part number for high risers, likely just a different stand. They do have good stuff, and basically all I'll use on a race FE engine anyway. I have thought about using the street set-up for the stocker, but haven't had any issues with what is on there now.

[pbf777]

My guess is they are stuck on saying it is .450 higher than OEM, but likely that the high riser is plus .450 VERSUS the medium riser... just a guess.

     I would say the answer would be no, it isn't.  Although I can't say that I have actually plotted out the positioning (relative to what?  ), but if one considers that the positions seem constant for: crankshaft to camshaft to deck of the block and all else below the heads as the blocks and related componentry are not unique to the H.R..  No unique dimensions of camshaft, lifters, pushrods, shafts, rocker arms, valve lengths & installed heights, or any other valve train componentry (except the stands) critical to this conversation.  The only real change seems to be that the roof of the inlet port was raised (yep, "High-Riser"  ) which also acts as the mounting surface for the rocker-shaft stands, and it would appear that the stands were shorten the commensurate sum offsetting this in order to position the shafts in the same location relative to say.........up from the cylinder head's deck face or about anything else of relative concern.  This obviously would also be most cost effective as beyond the unique castings for the cylinder head and the stands there were only two simple engineering and machining execution changes required in order to provide an extremely different application product.   

    For reference: in my observation standard (aluminum) FE stand heights (base to shaft center-line) generally are found to be of somewhere just short of 1.420"; medium-riser & tunnel-port generally something of approximately 1.330"- 1.340"; and high-risers are of the shorter somewhere of .945" height. all plus or minus say .010", or even more (aka. certainly not very consistent!  ); so I also always equalize each sets' height for consistency and so as to not induce additional bending stresses on the shaft as otherwise would be presented when installed.   

    Scott.

[XR7]

 (relative to what?  ) the deck maybe? Like you said... without a print it is hard to say what they are talking about for sure.

[dozz302]

Thanks for the input, so you have used the T&D stands for the High Riser cut down and they worked OK if I read correctly? I am assuming of course with the end stands cut down.
Yes, Presision Oil Pumps said to me that he was working on exactly what I described but that was a couple of years ago and I don't get any responses when I recently inquired about it.
Harland sharp and Blue Thunder having STEEL end support stands, if they were made I don't think they are any longer available nor have I ever seen a set for sale.
Everything being said it would be nice for someone to make them in steel for previous reasons noted.
It just isn't reassuring that when you remove almost all of the material on the bottom which extends to the actual end of the stand it would be very strong in aluminum.

[pbf777]

 

It just isn't reassuring that when you remove almost all of the material on the bottom which extends to the actual end of the stand it would be very strong in aluminum.

     You are correct, It won't be!    

     It would seem that the only way in the conventional manor for T & D to accomplish this for the H.R. was/is to raise the shaft and hence the rocker arm to permit a reasonable void to be taken up by the horizontal flat web that connects the two engagements of the shaft by the singular stand.

     Thank you Mr. Lykins for the advice to view your u-tube video, and with this observation I feel that the numbers given to me by T & D (though were somewhat vague  ) are probably physically as similar as indicated. So this leads me back to the question of how does one raise the shafts fulcrum pivot point this much and (given we acknowledge that Ford Motor Co. wasn't that far off) maintain reasonably proper geometry? 

     In looking at your video of Feb. 11th 2021 at the 3.21 +  min. point, though not really definitive and a poor format for attempting to draw absolutes for sure, as this really does require a hands-on observation, but this video does seem to reinforce my concerns as looking at the number one cylinders' intake and exhaust rocker arm positioning, it does seem to display quite the plunge in the rocker arm angle with the roller tip chasing the valve stem tip and the comparative angle relationships on the pushrod side this on the intake set and with in comparison to the exhaust set which is at rest though also the intake may not actually be at full lift?  I really would be interested in the realized motion in the relationship of the roller tip and the valve stem tip? 

     But I wasn't there, saw nothing, and there is more than one concern and even different intentions in establishing "proper valve-train geometry" !'m just attempting to establish if this engineering is somewhat sound before one puts forth to effort and expense or advises another to do so.   

     Scott.

[TomP]

I started to make one for my High Riser. Since there isn't room under the rocker I was making it as a long bar over top of the four stands and rockers with tabs down from each end. It needs to be above the tops of the stands to clear the rockers with pretty large reliefs for the rocker adjusters.

[dozz302]

Tom, well that is an idea. Never heard of that approach of a bar overhead and the end support hanging down. How about just a single overhead piece for each end? Do you have any pictures to post? Were you planning on stock rockers or roller rockers?

[dozz302]

Does anyone have pictures of a standard end support stand that has been machined down to fit a Factory Ford C4AE High Riser Head as I have read here?

[pbf777]

...............well that is an idea. Never heard of that approach of a bar overhead and the end support hanging down.

     This idea has been around for a while, probably adopted from viewing the typical stud-girdle engineering of the overhead bar tying the studs together of a stud-mount system type cylinder head (think S.B.C.  ) though the functional solution intention is somewhat different.  The issue seems to be that by the time an aluminum bar (bridge) of sufficient rigidity is raised high enough to clear typical aluminum rocker arms and their adjusters your also going to need awfully tall valve covers.  Not to mention that if one needs something this racy are the four 3/8" fasteners going to actually prove sufficient to hold the entire conglomeration onto the cylinder head!   

     I think in the O.P.'s original inquiry of a "flat-Tappet" camshaft, with the use of the stock H.R. steel stands and a pair of good hardened steel shafts, coupled with appropriate hardware, this should prove sufficient; as though perhaps less than ideal, we have run mechanical rollers with such successfully in the past.   

     Scott.