FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: BattlestarGalactic on June 18, 2020, 08:07:46 AM
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Ok, have run one in the wagon for decades. I put one in the black car last summer with a 6al box. Works perfect, runs better then ever.
This past weekend I finally was able to get the black car out and I wanted to take it for a drive Sunday evening. I got some fuel and headed out. I got 5 miles from home and it died suddenly. I was able to quickly turn into a parking lot. It sneezed a couple times and then nothing. I pulled the coil wire off and laid it out on the throttle linkage and cranked. I would spark ONCE when I turned the key on, nothing while cranking, and one spark when I let off the key. Ugh.
Having free towing, I made the call(big mistake I later found out). A buddy just happen to be at that plaza and came over. We talked, I told him what happened and I had help coming. He left a while later.
This first happened at 8 pm. It was 9:45 when I get a call from my "insurance person" and was informed they couldn't find a wrecker available. Say WHAT?? (they couldn't find a cut rate wrecker was the real truth). At that point I reached in, hit the key and the car actually started and idled. I then gave that person a piece of my mind about their "Free towing" and I then drove the car home without issue. Today I am changing insurance carriers.
Ok, back to the issue. Seems strange that the Unilite "failed" just enough then recouped after cooling off? I have run it off the existing resistor coil wire because the Mallory instructions say you can(even with an MSD). The sheet says you can run it either way in very simple diagrams. I knew Pertonix must use 12v. The wagon runs on 12v, but it only runs for a few minutes at a time so no heat ever gets to it. I'm not sure if I should try it again? Replace it and run it on 12v? Or just find another distributor(like a dual point) and just go back to old school.
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Typical Unilite going bad, look for an Accel Points Eliminator kit, it is the same module and much cheaper
Two things with the Unilite.
1 - The Red feed line to the unilte is strong, as is the bulb, it can take 14V, and can live on anything above 10V, so if you want to resist it later, fine to do so. However, it doesn't like surging either. If you replace it, they do make a surge protector. I am not sure it does much.
2 - The real issue with a Unilite is power from the coil to the green wire, if you have a Unilte and are triggering it at .5 volts, or whatever the MSD does, it should last forever, but it is an electronic thing and could have had a random failure or manufacturing error.
After checking connections, etc, I'd likely get the Accel module and throw it in the glove box and watch it, if it fails, you swap it quickly, if it doesn't, your spare is there
I love the Unilite modules (well I love the Accel, because the price is way better) but they can be finicky, although so can Pertronix.
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Sounds like a typical heat caused electronic failure. BUT it may be there is a bad connection of some sort and it "grew" with heat. Far fetched but could be.
I would A: make sure you can get a wrecker B: try straight 12V. If it is bad it will show up again.
I have a hard time believing it would be set up for a resistor wire but they put it in print...just seems a tad odd as you indicated. There is a good chance the instructions are wrong and low voltage could definitely "mess" with the brain, does mine everyday. HAHAHA.
Good luck and completely understand your frustration on the towing. Last time I needed it, I called the wrecker and got towed and just sent the bill to the insurer...but that was a while ago and they all have different protocols.
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There is no "road side fixing" with a blower drive hanging over the distributor. Unfortunately. I have to pull the blower to get the cap off. Ya, I'm full of all kinds of fun things. Lol.
I have contemplated a crab cap, but the distributor body is taller making it just as useless to access. Dont ask me why they did that?
I just moved car out of the garage, runs fine, but I'm not going far in it! I have to make some decisions on what i am going to change.
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Larry, have you thought about going with a front mount distributor? If you have room between the blower belt that might be a good solution. I did a prototype setup for one a while back, using one of my timing covers with the removable front plate. It looked workable...
BTW I hate Unilites, been stranded more than once by those things...
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Another thing I have found with Ford's is the ignition switch. Running ignition power and cranking ignition are on two different tabs inside the switch. Outside of carrying around a spare testing headlight and harness, waiting for it to act up, it can be a pain to find when intermittent.
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Larry, have you thought about going with a front mount distributor? If you have room between the blower belt that might be a good solution. I did a prototype setup for one a while back, using one of my timing covers with the removable front plate. It looked workable...
BTW I hate Unilites, been stranded more than once by those things...
Even with a stock waterpump? Seems like something would have to give to get something on the front of the motor.
I've seen those remote mount distributors using a small gilmer belt. Falls in line with those Swartz offset distributors. $900 is a bit extreme and the reason I haven't purchased one yet.
Another thing I have found with Ford's is the ignition switch. Running ignition power and cranking ignition are on two different tabs inside the switch. Outside of carrying around a spare testing headlight and harness, waiting for it to act up, it can be a pain to find when intermittent.
Chris, I am aware of ignition switch issues. My '69 F100 had problems like that. It would run only as long as I cranked it. Chased it to a loose plug on the back of the ignition switch. Seems the plastic locks were broken off years ago that held it tight. I kept my eye on that plug for years until I finally bought the replacement switch/harness and replaced all that just this spring. I shouldn't have any problems now. I know I've felt around and that plug was "warm" to the touch after driving. Seems that was a warranty issue way back then. Mine was still all original, so I was lucky.
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Larry, have you thought about going with a front mount distributor? If you have room between the blower belt that might be a good solution. I did a prototype setup for one a while back, using one of my timing covers with the removable front plate. It looked workable...
BTW I hate Unilites, been stranded more than once by those things...
Even with a stock waterpump? Seems like something would have to give to get something on the front of the motor.
Nope, but here's your chance to go remote electric ;D ;D
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Ugh, some other electrical doodad to fail? Might as well go with points Lol!
Friend was giving me greif over my vintage moroso water pump drive on the Dyno. I told them at least you can see it working(or not). Those fancy $350 pumps are mystery machines til the temp skyrockets to let you know it failed! In 25 seasons I have replaced that little motor once. It would run, but only if you spun it to start it. I try to spray some oil in the bushings every spring.
In that conversation they hassled me over my antique 1850 Holleys. I said I spent too much on that water pump drive to afford new carbs. LMAO! Don't get me started on my mech tach and lack of a shift light.
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I doubt you're turning your engine over 5500, are you? For reliability, and not having easy access, points may just be the way to go. Can you trigger the 6AL with points? I'm not sure. I used points to trigger the MSD Blaster ignition in my old '68 Highboy. It worked great for 20+ years without having to mess with them. Gap doesn't matter since the ignition is only looking for a trigger signal. Only one time did I ever have to mess with that setup, and that's when the rubbing block broke off the points a year or two after I rebuilt the engine. Replaced the points and never touched them again. Of course that was an old set of points. Not sure how well new sets hold up on the rubbing block because I've still got several old stock sets.
I know points sound counter intuitive, but they are reliable and trouble free for engines that don't see higher RPM's, and the ignition still provides all the benefits of big sparks.
That Blaster ignition is now in my '70 F350, going on 26+ years of use without a problem.
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The problem I had with the points was bounce and it would break up above 4000 rpm. That was my reason for using the unilite and 6al box I had laying in the garage.
My 69 f100 still has a mallory dual point distributor and runs just fine.
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The problem I had with the points was bounce and it would break up above 4000 rpm. That was my reason for using the unilite and 6al box I had laying in the garage.
My 69 f100 still has a mallory dual point distributor and runs just fine.
My gut says one of two options - swap for a fresh module and make sure all voltages and connections are good
Second option, crank trigger with either locked timing if it works for you, or electronically controlled. At least it would keep you from having to pull the blower when something failed
I guess you could double up on a points spring and have it trigger the MSD, but then you'll fight cam/block wear on the points I think, and if it's not easy to get in there, you fight the same baloney
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Ross, you clearly see my dilemma for the past 20 years. Thus i did nothing and put up with those stock points. I finally gave it a change and that is failing quickly.
I've thought of a trigger and locking timing. Just need a start retard like I put in the wagon.
Decisions, decisions.(money or a lot of money).
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The problem I had with the points was bounce and it would break up above 4000 rpm.
I'm sure you probably tried different points, but have to ask because that sounds like a really weak set of points. I used to turn mine 5500 on a semi-regular basis, like a couple times a week, for a couple decades. From what I've heard (never used a set), new points are fairly weak and won't hold up well. The vintage NOS points I always used never had that problem. They're still not too difficult to find, although a bit pricey for what they are. Anyway, just a thought.
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Use the points to trigger the MSD , I've got a customer using points to trigger a 6AL and it's trouble free for over 5 years now , see's maybe 3K miles a season . With the MSD it just uses points as a ON-OFF switch and has no Coil current running through it like points , points last forever in those conditions
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Simple fix is a 1975 or 76 Ford Duraspark distributor triggering an external MSD6 (or a Duraspark if you are so inclined). It will fit and it will probably never fail. No electronics inside an inaccessable location with high heat and vibration.
More complicated is a distributor we made for a blower application. Shortened an MSD 8594 and made an adapter to mount a Chevy sized crab cap. Still using an external electronic box because mounting electronics to the engine was a lousy idea when GM did it in 1975 (HEI), a lousy idea when Ford did it in 1987 (TFI), and its still a lousy idea today. And I know that a bazillion folks successfully do it every day (including on my old rat rod 46)...
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I just need something better then Azone points. Some NOS or such would be good. Or some Accel or such aftermarket? I can bolt the points plate right back in the distributor.
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Just an observation from another Unilite fan. Larry has said he has run his Unilite conversion for decades without any real problems until right now and all this advice he gets is to get rid of it. Where's the love for the venerable Unilite? :)
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Noticed a comment regarding points bounce up the screen a bit, so thought I'd chime in.
The very first 'hotrod' thing I ever did was to put a Mallory conversion kit in the diz on the family '53 Merc. Toward the top of first gear, the engine would violently 'break up'. I guessed it might be ignition and talked to the guys at the local 'high performance' shop, who suggested the dual-point conversion. (My Dad wasn't a 'car' guy, although he didn't object to my getting my fingers greasy.) The instructions that came with the kit explained how to put the parts inside the diz and mount the giant brass-canned condenser on the outside. But my buddy and I were stumped for a half-an-hour when the engine wouldn't restart.
Finally I remembered having read about setting the gap on points and that four thicknesses of map paper (we all had maps in the glove compartment) would establish a working gap. So we set the points with map paper and the engine came to life. And from that time on, the flathead Merc would wind to the moon with NO break-up.
I fell in love with ignition systems to such an extent that, when I finally bought a NEW car, it was a '64 Ford Custom---with a 427-T engine. It said so on the valve covers. I'd ordered the optional transistorized ignition on the engine, complete with the Bakelite housing on the inner fender housing and the 'T' appended to the 427 sticker on the valve covers.
The distributor used only one set of points. (Buy them special, by part number, at the dealer.) I was told they alternatively fit in a six cylinder diz. But even with the transistor package, there was a bit of 'break-up' above 6000, and I was shifting at 6500, or trying to. I finally wedged a piece of scuba-diver's wet-suit material between the arm on the points and the inner side of the diz body. (I was a scuba instructor and had lots of scraps of foam neoprene laying around.) This stabilized the points and kept them from bouncing, even at high RPM.
On the last FE engine I built, I went to a trigger wheel, And this next time, I'll use a COP set-up and run the entire ignition through the ECM that runs both the injection and the ignition and, a few other things as well, so there'll just be a blank spot where the distributor was meant to go. But if I were to have anything to do with points, I'd use something like a chunk of foam neoprene wedged in place to stabilize the point arm.
KS
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Just an observation from another Unilite fan. Larry has said he has run his Unilite conversion for decades without any real problems until right now and all this advice he gets is to get rid of it. Where's the love for the venerable Unilite? :)
Used them in a bunch of cars, my ski boat and my race car. Not one problem.
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Never again I walked to many times because of a Unilite. Also blew up many exhaust systems good idea not very reliable.
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I have had both good luck and bad luck with the Unilite distributors. The one thing that seems to kill them quickly is low battery voltage. Joe-JDC
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The points I installed in 1999 when I built the motor worked great and would go to 6k every time. The ones in 2012 where junk from AutoZone. If I can find another Mallory YL tach drive distributor I would really like that. Points and the chance to install my other mechanical tach. I have a factory crab cap tach drive but like I mentioned it is worthless due to the height. The YL tach drive std cap in the wagon is a very short height.
I will get something figured out.