FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Riderjeff on February 17, 2020, 06:18:13 PM
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I thought there might be a remote chance of picking up a "genuine Edelbrock" fastener kit for my Streetmaster Intake. Then I called Edelbrock. "That intake's 40 years old..." was the response; needless to say, they weren't much help.
So just throwing this out to those with lots more experience with me, do you have a "go to" supplier and are there any hidden fastener issues fitting the Streetmaster? I'm leaning towards the ARP 155-2102 kit, don't need the Stainless bling, and prefer to avoid possible galvanic issues.
TIA, Jeff
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I like https://www.mcmaster.com/ If they don't have it there it probably doesn't exist.
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Your local hardware store...
Unless you want the bragging rights of expensive ARP stuff, or want to wait several days for a mail shipment, an intake won't care what bolt is in it, or where it came from. They don't need to be grade 8 either. And intakes being what they are, your common bolt length differences of 1/4" may end up being a tad bit too long or short. In that case, you have to get one a bit longer than needed and grind/cut it down or stack a couple washers under them.
Edit to add that you do want to get heavy thick washers though. Typical thin washers will deform and can damage the aluminum in the intake.
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I use a guy off Ebay, bns-2000, when I need new stuff
Typically I like Grade 8 from a hardware store, but sometimes you need a small head and an exact length and this guy sells a set cheap and you can tell him which intake, or as what I do, measure what I need and just tell him lengths and quantity.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-428-Intake-Manifold-Bolts-Grade-8-Black-Oxide-12-Point-NEW/362469579618?hash=item5464dedb62:g:O6cAAOSwstxVBegL
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Here is what i did to spotface the Streetmasters Boltholes
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=3977.30
Then i used a hardened washer same dia as the spotface
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I use ARP. I know it's a premium, but I also know it is good stuff. $60 for some gorgeous stainless intake bolts that don't see much torque, but are right up front and visible- worth it in my opinion.
"The More You Know:"
As for hardware from the hardware store, be careful with certain coatings. Black oxide is the most common, and it is garbage since it is only a matter of time until they rust (further). Black Zinc is risky because cheaper BZ fasteners exhibit hydrogen embrittlement, and often cant reach torque yield values without shear fracturing. Reputable manufacturers use black zinc with no issues as the coating process is more controlled, so it is a safe fastener. Stainless looks nice, great corrosion resistance, but I won't use it in high torque or high strength areas (most SS hardware is similar to grade 5) but costs up to 4x more than low-carbon equivalents. Silver zinc is my favorite all-around, and honestly I don't know why it isn't as plagued by embrittlement issues as the black zinc (maybe because you don't see the ultra-cheap mfgs using silver zinc?).
When buying from a hardware store, like Midwest Fasteners and such, be careful about strength designations:
Grade 2: Low Strength
Grade 5: Medium Strength
Grade 8: High Strength
Class 4: Metric, similar to Grade 2
Class 8.8: Metric, similar to Grade 5
Class 10.9: Metric, similar to Grade 8
Class 12.9: Metric, exceeds Grade 8
Do not confuse 8.8 for Grade 8. Some places casually intermix the terms (such as "Grade 8.8"). For the vast majority of uses, it won't matter. Your intake wont care if you use Grade 5 or Grade 8. In my line of work, we've actually had to make our own fasteners out of Stressproof 1144 because 12.9 wasn't strong enough in certain applications.
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Fancy - plated socket head cap screws, hardened washers. Also ARP. Plain - regular hex head bolts, also with hardened washers if you can find such. The washers under the hex head bolts on the 351C are left over ARP washers.
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Fancy - plated socket head cap screws, hardened washers. Also ARP. Plain - regular hex head bolts, also with hardened washers if you can find such. The washers under the hex head bolts on the 351C are left over ARP washers.
On the Streetmaster FE there is no room to get a tool on a regular hex head bolt in a few holes
at least on mine
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When I bought my first Streetmaster new back in the mid 70s, there was a set of 4 special intake bolts included, look like long 7/16" head header bolts. I have a couple of sets of new Edelbrock intake bolts still in the original 70s packaging, but I will have to compare them to the bolts for my Streetmaster. Or if somebody has a 70s Edelbrock catalog, I will post the part numbers later today. These bolts are needed as the curved intake runners are really tight in those 4 bolt holes for a 9/16" head bolt and wrench.
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I have seen 9/16" headed bolts in them, maybe tapped past the runners. I used Allen head bolts and they fit or you can buy 12 point or smaller headed 6 point bolts individually from ARP. Streetmaster is about the only intake the bolts are any issue on.
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On the Streetmaster FE there is no room to get a tool on a regular hex head bolt in a few holes
at least on mine
The two center bolt holes on each side of my 351C Funnelweb are too tight to the runners to use anything but 5/16 socket head cap screws and bitty washers, so I hear that problem.
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You may want to chase the threads on a plated bolt.
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When I bought my first Streetmaster new back in the mid 70s, there was a set of 4 special intake bolts included, look like long 7/16" head header bolts. I have a couple of sets of new Edelbrock intake bolts still in the original 70s packaging, but I will have to compare them to the bolts for my Streetmaster. Or if somebody has a 70s Edelbrock catalog, I will post the part numbers later today. These bolts are needed as the curved intake runners are really tight in those 4 bolt holes for a 9/16" head bolt and wrench.
I'd be interested to see what you come up with. The "customer service" person at Edelbrock declared to me that no such animal existed...
I was/am a little concerned about the interior fasteners, but it'll all get worked out.
And thanks to everyone who's chimed in, I've bought my share of fasteners but I knew I'd learn something on this forum. That's just the way it rolls.
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>12 point or smaller headed 6 point bolts individually from ARP.
This would be a good option - I use some plated ARP header bolts on the dragster to clear the pipes, they are 3/8-16 thread with a 5/16 12 point head. Can get a small head 5/16 box end wrench in some tight places.
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Completely different animal than a 351C. Be ABSOLUTELY sure the bolt doesn't bottom out. AMK bolts for the C7ZX were too long in the first runs. They bottomed out and the intake pulled oil/air. It took me disassembling it twice and looking at the crush pattern to understand why. They have since rectified the issue.
Be sure to use a washer under the bolt and that the manifold is spot-faced properly of they tend to crack with 32 lbs of torque.
-Keith
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I used ARP on everything. For my Streetmaster, I ended up ordering specific lengths and head sizes to sneak passed the runners. 3/8-16 with 1.5 or 2 inch length if memory serves and if you get the 3/8 wrenching size they'll drop right in.
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In the past I've used a lot of the bolts already listed in this thread. Last year while installing a new intake, I decided to use ARP studs and 12-pt. nuts.
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/3370
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Lots of solid advice. The previous owner of my engine had the intake changed and went with ARP 12 pt. No issues there but they kept using 12 pts for the accessory brackets, water pump etc... Standard 6 pt can be checked and snugged up from the side. Whereas a 12pt much like an Allen head are only approached from the top. Several brackets, when layered make top access impossible. Long story short, I had to pull the fan, fan pulley and a bunch of brackets just to snug up "a" bolt and it was totally avoidable. Keep fit, form and function in balance.
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I went out and checked out the old Edelbrock bolt kits that I bought from an early local Speed Shop many years ago. I have 2 different parts numbers, Edelbrock # 9135, which are 3/8"x16 x 2" long, and #9136, which are the same thread, but 1 3/4" long. Both packs have 4 bolts, & have 7/16" 6 point heads, and look like really long header bolts. I also have an Edelbrock FE Streetmaster that came with the 4 Edelbrock bolts, and they are 2" long, so I have to assume that they are the same as the # 9135 bolt kit. Anybody have an older Edelbrock catalog that can confirm this? Other than the 4 positions where the curved runners get in the way, I used the factory Ford intake bolts for the other mounting holes. As for using studs, on a FE, I don`t think thats a viable option, as with the intake bolts angled, there is no way to install the intake manifold with 4 studs installed. I suppose that you could use studs on one head, but even then I don`t know if you could slide the intake manifold over the other head with the studs installed. And ever if you could, you would still have to install the longer studs into the tight area under the curved Streetmaster runners. Studs work fine on a 221-302 & 351 W engines, which have vertical intake bolt holes, or a 351C, M, or 400, which have some vertical bolt holes, but also have other angled holes. Lots of 302s had 2 studs, one on each side, with bolts for the others.
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I have a 1981 Edelbrock catalog that has the Streetmaster listed, but doesn’t mention needing the special bolts in the description. It could have been specified in the instructions. The bolts are listed in the back of the catalog with other miscellaneous parts. They are described as “Special Manifold Cap Screws”.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0cgdN6K/9-B4-CD17-B-E6-A1-458-B-A680-9-BEE3-AEAB1-F8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rDfXmNYT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4v4Ct1L/A7077078-1501-4-B53-AB66-07-D56197-CE38.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8KKYZb9)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdpDKp2h/2-E5-FDD89-2-E0-E-41-DF-AB8-B-7009989-DEF7-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWVyjnCD)
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I used an ARP full engine set. I may have had to use a few washers to fit the performer RPM intake. I used a full engine kit because I was building a complete motor and it was the easiest solution. The intake bolts are really just holding it in place unlike the bolts for the mains and heads that are holding against the engine operating loads. I’d just get SS or chromed bolts from the hardware store if I did it again.
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Kevin, when I bought my first Streetmaster new, in 1976 or so, the 4 special bolts were included in the box. I guess later on Edelbrock decided to make the mounting bosses different heights, so the stock bolts wouldn`t work, and then not include them in the box, so you had to buy them seperately. Then they made it so different manifolds for the same engine family needed different bolts for each model.Rather than waste a bunch of time running around chasing down oddball bolts, I gave up and for my Victor and Performer RPM FE intakes, I just ordered the 2 different Edelbrock bolt kits. Kinda sucks if a guy figures on doing a quicky intake swap, only to find oddball bolts are required, and no local shops stock them.
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I As for using studs, on a FE, I don`t think thats a viable option, as with the intake bolts angled, there is no way to install the intake manifold with 4 studs installed. I suppose that you could use studs on one head, but even then I don`t know if you could slide the intake manifold over the other head with the studs installed. And ever if you could, you would still have to install the longer studs into the tight area under the curved Streetmaster runners. Studs work fine on a 221-302 & 351 W engines, which have vertical intake bolt holes, or a 351C, M, or 400, which have some vertical bolt holes, but also have other angled holes. Lots of 302s had 2 studs, one on each side, with bolts for the others.
1. Lay intake on heads.
2. After intake is in correct position on heads, thread each stud into head, 1 at a time.
3. Add washer and nut to each stud.