FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fe66comet on March 19, 2014, 08:21:39 PM
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When I was looking for a bell housing and all that a year ago for my 445 all I could get was custom made stuff. Now Tremec makes the input in 10 or 26 spline and Lakewood makes the bell housing. I guess all the Cobra kit cars are good for something.
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Quicktime makes a two bellhousings for T56 Magnums to bolt up to an FE. One for an LS style Magnum, one for the Ford style.
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It sure did not take long, I am amazed at the almost overnight rise in FE popularity. Almost like the new SB Chevy kind of popularity.
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Sure is nice! Now if we could get competitive pricing on stuff like billet cranks and rods etc, that would only fuel the fire more. I wonder why edelbrock doesn't offer his pro port fe head in a finished package with a kunts style runner that flows 415+ and call it a super victor?
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A decent injected intake would be cool too or a true four bolt main with splayed caps.
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You know that you can buy a really nice and strong 4 bolt mains FE block if you want.
I wouldn't say over night, but about 15 years.
When Vic started to sell the alum heads that really opened up the development.
You can build a complete aftermarket Ford FE power system. Engine, Trans and Rear Axle.
It is pretty Kool.
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I thought all afertermarket blocks were cross bolted? A good splayed cap block would be awesome but of course out of reach for most. All new blocks seem to be $5000.00 up. All the rest has always been around in aftermarket drive train wise. I really can't understand why you would want a top loader or Jerico unless you are doing a restoration. Curry has had remake housing for ever for the rodder and restoration guys, just like the originals.
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A couple of things.
A new iron block is about $3600US, which is still a good deal.
A Jerico is a race gear box and will not explode after repeated clutch dumps at 5000 RPM.
Your T56 Magnum will.
Might be great street or road box, but it is not a drag box.
The TL is a great street box and will never be matched by any thing built after it.
It was used in the koolest cars ever made.
I actually have a rather old Currie housing, maybe 20 years old. And know quite a bit about their history.
I bought a new Currie maybe 7 or 8 years ago. just saying.
Cross bolting will always be superior to splay bolting.
And yes I have enough aftermarket parts to assemble a complete FE power system. :P
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My block is cross bolted.
Cross bolted with a true 4 bolt main would be awesome tho.
My crank and rods are billet (machined forgings) from crower I wasn't offended at the price.
No more than their bbc setup was.
^why do you claim cross bolted is better ?
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"^why do you claim cross bolted is better ?"
Splay bolting is used on shallow blocks, ie: where the crank sits half way at the pan rail.
It is done to prevent cap walk from side to side.
Cross bolting is only available on deep skirt blocks where the crank sits up inside the block, ie: the FE
It is a much stronger and if you look at most of the HiPo stuff today they have gone to deep skirt and cross bolt.
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Why then are the 3000 HP plus engines splayed, and yes I know they are. Also formula one engines are. Cross bolted prevents end walk but does nothing for side walking, the obvious answer is a thicker web and siamesed bores along with a splayed cap much like the heavy World, Brodix, Dart ect. blocks in Ford, Chevy and Dodge configurations. The FE block itself is much like the Buick 455 or the Cadillac 472-501, they were big so weight was a concern as was size.
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I still don't consider $3600 a good deal for a block, when you can get dart sbf blocks for $2600. Not that I'd abandon an FE to build a lame Windsor, but I'm just saying.
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For $2600 you get no history or mystic.
Even a good looking/working 390 will still turn a few heads.
Jon if the FE is so low on your ladder why are you working on one?
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It is not low on my ladder but rather high. Some of my favorite cars are the Buick GS 455 Stage II, AMC AMX 390 Go Pack, 68 Shelby Mustang 427 and any Willy's either civilian or military. I just wish the aftermarket would take the next step like Kenne Bell did with the Buick. The FE has made a huge come back of which I was trying to illustrate with the availability of the Tremac T56, this transmission represents the future. Soon modifications like bigger gears, gear eliminated kits hardened shafts and other parts will carry that trans to well over 2000 HP as it is already doing duty behind the big threes over 800 HP club. Heads are starting to catch up to technology with the middle or the road Vic heads to Barry's Felony head and Blue Thunders offerings. But once again the bottom end has not made any large departures from stock. I have always believed in the unique and underdog cars so the FE with it's new found popularity with many who weren't even born to see it in the family wagon will embrace it eventually just from it's heritage just as 426 Hemi, 440 Wedge, Rat and Mouse, 427 and 428 CJ, Boss and other names are still uttered in the garage. It never goes away just sleeps to be refound.
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"^why do you claim cross bolted is better ?"
Splay bolting is used on shallow blocks, ie: where the crank sits half way at the pan rail.
It is done to prevent cap walk from side to side.
Cross bolting is only available on deep skirt blocks where the crank sits up inside the block, ie: the FE
It is a much stronger and if you look at most of the HiPo stuff today they have gone to deep skirt and cross bolt.
The new engines are deep skirt 4 bolt with cross bolts in aluminum
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Pretty sure that 7000 HP top fuel Hemis are crossbolted. Splayed caps are a good solution for a block without a skirt, but I agree with Howie that cross-bolting is better.
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4.6 and LSI are junk blocks to begin with, your only option over 800 or so is a very expensive aftermarket. Also the modular block is a far departure from any older design so it is a apple to orange comparison. Either way a $8000 Pond block only handles 1300 HP, a stock 427 side oiler handles about 1000 so the mains are still a limiting factor as is the block itself. I just would like a company like World or Dart to build a block that was the next step up. Also then it would be affordable and be a much stronger part. Some other options like a tall deck or bigger mains would be nice along with thicker rails.
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4.6 and LSI are junk blocks to begin with, your only option over 800 or so is a very expensive aftermarket. Also the modular block is a far departure from any older design so it is a apple to orange comparison. Either way a $8000 Pond block only handles 1300 HP, a stock 427 side oiler handles about 1000 so the mains are still a limiting factor as is the block itself. I just would like a company like World or Dart to build a block that was the next step up. Also then it would be affordable and be a much stronger part. Some other options like a tall deck or bigger mains would be nice along with thicker rails.
The early 4.6 blocks are far from junk, the factory teksid aluminum 4.6 blocks ('93-'98 Mark VIII and '96-'98 Cobra) can handle over 1500 hp. That's with factory 4v heads as well (heavily ported). I'm not too familiar with the LS junk though, so 800 hp may be the limit for those.
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If you'll make a quick trip over to Yellow Bullet, you'll find a massive number of threads that all'll tell you a junk-yard LS engine will make over 800 horsepower with nothing more than a cam change. (I think you must do the cam work with your eyes crossed or you won't be able to find that much power, though!) :o ::) ;) ;)
KS
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I have done work on LS and 4.6 engines, very expensive to build and the initial cast is a huge investment. The engines that are already set up for a build you will not find in a junk yard anywhere around here, Boss Mustangs and Cadillac Escalades do not make it to a junk yard. Body shops buy them out from insurance companies and resell them. Or you find the vehicle parted out on EBay one bolt and lug nut at a time.
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I'm pretty sure the factory side oiler block is more of an issue at 1000hp than the Pond block would be at 1500.
Dart small blocks are $2600? A friend paid $1700 for his.
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The small block Motown with 9.5 deck , 351 Cleveland mains, 4 bolt steel caps, 9.5 deck, one piece rear seal and completely redesigned oiling ( not just modified). Also thicker deck , rails, walls, webbing, jackets and Siamesed bores. All that bang for $2700.00 bucks. The best Pond has a lot less for three times more. Even the same block in a 460 is less than $4000,00. That is very reasonable for a true race block that can handle about anything you throw at it without block fill. I fully agree that Dart, World, or even Ford Performance can make a good part that is reasonably priced. That was my point exactly, so much more could be done for a whole lot less than $8000.00 bucks in a FE Block.
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The small block Motown with 9.5 deck , 351 Cleveland mains, 4 bolt steel caps, 9.5 deck, one piece rear seal and completely redesigned oiling ( not just modified). Also thicker deck , rails, walls, webbing, jackets and Siamesed bores. All that bang for $2700.00 bucks. The best Pond has a lot less for three times more. Even the same block in a 460 is less than $4000,00. That is very reasonable for a true race block that can handle about anything you throw at it without block fill. I fully agree that Dart, World, or even Ford Performance can make a good part that is reasonably priced. That was my point exactly, so much more could be done for a whole lot less than $8000.00 bucks in a FE Block.
Exactly, if FE blocks were cheaper, I'd definitely be building a 482+ rather than a 445. I hate being stuck with a 4.080 bore. It's a vicious circle though, Dart, etc. doesn't build FE blocks probably because of low demand compared to a sbf or bbf, but in turn, less people build FE's because there are fewer options for parts suppliers, and those few options cost significantly more.
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I think the good stuff will come along as with the Tremek kit, as I said last year it could only be done custom. Now everything is off the shelf. The fact that big companies are recognizing demand still give me hope on a reasonable priced FE block. Ten years ago the engine was truck engine and race parts were limited to NOS factory stuff.
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I think the whole argument is kind of silly. Why would one want to seriously race an engine that hasn't been manufactured in performance guise since 1970 and was obsolete then? If you're going to go so far as to change the architecture of the engine then just go with a better option. Really, the thing that makes the FE is it's history. If you open your hood and what stares back at you doesn't even look like an FE any more, then what's the point? You might as well put one of those 600 cube Boss 9s from Kaase in it. You could definitely make (a lot) more power and the eye candy factor would be off the chart. If you want an FE, then it's most likely for the nostalgia. Where do you stop the mods before it's not an FE anymore?
BTW, I'd love for Jon to join me and my kit car for a jaunt through some nice mountain passes with his Comet. 8)
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/medium/On_The_Tail_2_.jpg)
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A crisp autumday in a Cobra on a Winding road 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ;
I can Think of way worse ways to spend my time ;D
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To each his own, I like building unique engines. Anyone can build a small block Chevy but a FE as I found out through my project is a bit more complicated. While I am modernizing many aspects of my engine it is still easily decernable as an FE with only the EFI intake, front belt drive and water pump being a modified appearance. The car itself will have a modernized tech look but still be retaining the classic lines and be fully functional. I can drive in cool weather, rain and on hot days comfortably. The vehicle will also be legal to run on the track so it is not just a cruiser. I never really have been much of a kit car fan, I do like custom hot rods and cars when they are done with some taste and style. If I were to build a kit style car it would be a 23T steel body pickup with a flathead, Strombergs, Offy heads, model a rear end and steel moon wheels. Basically a hot rod copycat from the early 50s in s simplistic form.
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To each his own...
I'm trying to hide all my goodies as best as possible.... For example my aluminum block is etched and painted blue lol... Other than the side oiler bulge my giant modified 352 air cleaner housing covers up the majority of my efi fuel rails. Most of the fancy stuff will be hidden.. Dizzy cap is black ecu and such is under the dash wide bands are under the car in the collectors. It's all there if you are looking for it but in a stock interiored galaxie with a subtle cage... I'm hoping most people think it's a mild resto mod that someone put a cage in... Not someone who needs to have his chassis re certified every 3 years...
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That's kind of what I was alluding to. Mine is stroked, bored and injected as well but you really can't tell from the outside.
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I started that way but the engine out grew the car. The 66 Comet is a little flimsy at the get go. Someday I would like to get a 54 pick up and make a sleeper out of it. The Comet body had taken some hits in the front so the core support was mangled and the car had been used hard with a stick 390 so everything suspention and drive train wise was worn out.I received the car in barely running condition and nothing matched so I decided to take a tech approach with the original parts as a baseline. The interior I would like to go with a retro road race look, the exterior I am keeping the stock classic lines but the drive train will be completely modernized with a EFI trick flow intake, t56 trans and four link Curry Fabricated rear end. That is the surprise end of things.
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Yeah i have my dad's drag racing 427 high riser in the garage... he used to race it in upstate new york in a falcon without a cage... he said he'd pretty much drive the car till the frame was torqued so bad the passenger front tire wouldn't touch the ground when the car was parked.
It has an ear broken off the crank and a cracked head though :-/ we sold it to some guy with a cobra kit and he blew it up so we bought it back for 1/10th the price.
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People sometimes underestimate torque while looking at just the HP numbers. I had a trans am with T tops and a 403 Olds, the 403 did not sound like a big engine at the time but prezled the car even with connectors and tunnel braces.