FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Boiler Ben on December 02, 2024, 10:51:47 AM
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My 390 build is coming along. I bought a rocker system from Precision Oil Pumps and am figuring out the geometry now. I have a couple of easy general questions.
1. My block is painted and the paint fully covers the water pump flange areas. See pic. I plan to use Right Stuff on the gaskets and the threads. Can I put this right on the painted surface or should I get down to bare metal?
2. My heads are just temporarily placed. Once I install the head gaskets and torque to spec, can those gaskets be reused if I wind up needing to remove the heads? Even if I run the oil pump? This is before the engine runs for real. I'm just thinking that if I wind up wanting to install restrictors, I'll want to do that on the bench instead of the engine.
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As for the paint or no paint issue: Do you think that the paint is a good "sealing" material? Generally the concern would be that the coolant, in time, may lift the paint to block contact surface, this also aided by corrosion effects, then allowing the coolant to migrate between and to the exterior. :-\ So generally, "no' one should not allow the paint to remain. ;)
As for the gaskets: Without a heat-cycle event, as long as on disassembly the surface material or coating does not adhere to the head or block, or become damaged, then yes, even though one would prefer not to practice this, you should be O.K..
Another possibility if your uncomfortable with the idea of possible gasket damage or of a "re-crush" scenario would be to just reduce the torquing spec. "some", say 20 ft. lbs., follow through with your oil testing procedure, and if the heads don't need to come back off then just follow though with the final pull or a proper "re-torquing" to the full ft.lbs. spec..; but then if they do, 'maybe' the lesser torque number might help in not scrubbing the gasket surface so hard and better your chances for reuse. :)
Scott.
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My 390 build is coming along. I bought a rocker system from Precision Oil Pumps and am figuring out the geometry now. I have a couple of easy general questions.
1. My block is painted and the paint fully covers the water pump flange areas. See pic. I plan to use Right Stuff on the gaskets and the threads. Can I put this right on the painted surface or should I get down to bare metal?
2. My heads are just temporarily placed. Once I install the head gaskets and torque to spec, can those gaskets be reused if I wind up needing to remove the heads? Even if I run the oil pump? This is before the engine runs for real. I'm just thinking that if I wind up wanting to install restrictors, I'll want to do that on the bench instead of the engine.
My experiences:
I've never had issues with water pump sealing on painted flanges like that.
I've also never had any issues with reusing head gaskets in the way that you describe.
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My 390 build is coming along. I bought a rocker system from Precision Oil Pumps and am figuring out the geometry now. I have a couple of easy general questions.
1. My block is painted and the paint fully covers the water pump flange areas. See pic. I plan to use Right Stuff on the gaskets and the threads. Can I put this right on the painted surface or should I get down to bare metal?
2. My heads are just temporarily placed. Once I install the head gaskets and torque to spec, can those gaskets be reused if I wind up needing to remove the heads? Even if I run the oil pump? This is before the engine runs for real. I'm just thinking that if I wind up wanting to install restrictors, I'll want to do that on the bench instead of the engine.
My experiences:
I've never had issues with water pump sealing on painted flanges like that.
I've also never had any issues with reusing head gaskets in the way that you describe.
X2
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If you had a smooth and even paint job, I think it'd be okay to seal over. Kinda hard to tell if the passenger side water pump mating surface is smooth and even paint, rough metal, or a rag touched the partially cured paint messing it up. I wouldn't try to seal over messed up paint.
Did the damper get painted? Weird to paint a new damper. If it's new paint on an old damper, I think I'd want a new damper on a fresh engine.
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Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm going to check that flange when I get home to see how smooth it is. The damper is new. I didn't paint it but I do see a couple smudges in the photo. I'll clean that up.
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There are a few different ways to restrict the oil to the valve train. One of those is restricting the oil coming to the rockers in the passage within the heads which terminates under a specific rocker stand on each engine bank. If reusing the head gaskets is a concern, then you may want to consider preparing the heads for the restrictors prior to install, that way you eliminate removing the heads for further work since it would then only necessitate removal of the rocker shaft assemblies to install the restrictors.
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My 390 build is coming along. I bought a rocker system from Precision Oil Pumps and am figuring out the geometry now. I have a couple of easy general questions.
1. My block is painted and the paint fully covers the water pump flange areas. See pic. I plan to use Right Stuff on the gaskets and the threads. Can I put this right on the painted surface or should I get down to bare metal?
2. My heads are just temporarily placed. Once I install the head gaskets and torque to spec, can those gaskets be reused if I wind up needing to remove the heads? Even if I run the oil pump? This is before the engine runs for real. I'm just thinking that if I wind up wanting to install restrictors, I'll want to do that on the bench instead of the engine.
My experiences:
I've never had issues with water pump sealing on painted flanges like that.
I've also never had any issues with reusing head gaskets in the way that you describe.
x3
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Hopefully, this isn't another case of just recommending that which one "got away with" vs. that of which one should consider in the process of attempting to do things "reasonably proper"! ???
Scott.
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Hopefully, this isn't another case of just recommending that which one "got away with" vs. that of which one should consider in the process of attempting to do things "reasonably proper"! ???
Scott.
Of all the paint chemistries I've seen and worked with that might be sprayed on a block, I don't think a smooth film of paint under a gasket would result in a leak. However, some paints will soften in water and/or antifreeze. For instance, solvent based alkyds (typical rattle can chemistry) will blister and soften with prolonged water exposure. A paint film on the "lips" of the coolant passages might soften, release, and then become a floating skin to get stuck in something like a t-stat. Probably wouldn't become a problem but it's just kinda sloppy to not slap a piece of painter's tape over the holes before painting. Then you'd never have to worry if you had floating paint skins.
So I wouldn't be thrilled to see painted sealing surfaces on my engine.
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However, some paints will soften in water and/or antifreeze.
Absolutely correct!
In a previous life, I was employed by a Sherwin Williams Automotive Paint Co. retail/commercial/wholesale dealer and we had to continually warn individuals that the enamel paints would not endure on a boat hull that sat in the water continually; intermittently O.K., but in long term exposure it would soften and fail. ;)
Scott.
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Considering it shouldn`t take more than a minute or 2 to scrape or wire brush the paint from the water pump gasket surface, I would remove the paint now, and not wondering if it could cause a leak down the road. Better safe than sorry!
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50954685601_5f63252dba_z.jpg)
496ci, 640 hp. Delivered it to the customer in Indiana. He put it in the car, drove it for a 500 mile break-in period, and then drove it to California via Route 66, headed down the Pacific Coast Highway, then drove it back home. It was about a 6000 mile round trip. Antifreeze. No leaks.
I've been doing my FE's like that for who knows how long.
Let it be known that I'm not arguing for what's right or what's wrong, I'm just saying that this is the way I've done it for a long time and have never had an issue. If the block was already painted, I personally wouldn't take the time to scrub it clean.
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I've been doing my FE's like that for who knows how long.
Let it be known that I'm not arguing for what's right or what's wrong, I'm just saying that this is the way I've done it for a long time and have never had an issue. If the block was already painted, I personally wouldn't take the time to scrub it clean.
Besides, even if the paint softens into alien spit, where's it going to go? It's trapped between the block and a gasket squeezed by a bolted on water pump.
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I've been doing my FE's like that for who knows how long.
Let it be known that I'm not arguing for what's right or what's wrong, I'm just saying that this is the way I've done it for a long time and have never had an issue. If the block was already painted, I personally wouldn't take the time to scrub it clean.
Besides, even if the paint softens into alien spit, where's it going to go? It's trapped between the block and a gasket squeezed by a bolted on water pump.
Exactly. If the liquid is getting between the gasket and the block then the gasket was compromised to begin with.
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Let it be known that I'm not arguing for what's right or what's wrong, I'm just saying that this is the way I've done it for a long time and have never had an issue. If the block was already painted, I personally wouldn't take the time to scrub it clean.
With all due respect, Brent, you ship engines out the door. You don't use them. I probably wouldn't make it a priority to complain to the builder if I did have a problem.
It's not hard to put some painters tape over the holes, place the pump on loosely, then cut around the pump outlets, peel off the excess, and you have a perfect match for gasket sealing. Like Rory said, it only takes a few minutes for some piece of mind. That's how I do it. But I also primer for the best paint adhesion, which would add a bit of thickness and probably not help the situation.
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Trust me, Doug, customers complain about everything. If a water pump started leaking (or a valve cover or a timing cover, or an oil pan), I'd hear about it. Some guys put 10k miles on their first year and a lot of guys are as green as grass when it comes to engine stuff. They're not afraid to speak up. I wish all my customers were as slick as you and Rory, but that very rarely is the case.
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Besides, even if the paint softens into alien spit, where's it going to go? It's trapped between the block and a gasket squeezed by a bolted on water pump.
Exactly. If the liquid is getting between the gasket and the block then the gasket was compromised to begin with.
We seem to forget that the paint layer has a thickness, or distance sum between the block casing and gasket surfaces, and potentially as the paint degrades within this hold-off area it may not do so in a homogeneous manor and therefore pathways maybe formed much in the way that water forms caverns containing a labyrinth of passages in the earth. ;)
Instead of attempting to prove that the presents of the paint isn't going to cause any issues, we should just acknowledge that at times some have not experienced any difficulties, great; but not that others, under any circumstances, absolutely will not. After all, if in doubt, lets follow the examples set forth by the O.E.M.'s whom spent a lot of time and money establishing the best practice, and you won't find any paint there,......................I wonder why? ???
But, as is and should be: "To each his own"! :)
Scott.
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Trust me, Doug, customers complain about everything. If a water pump started leaking (or a valve cover or a timing cover, or an oil pan), I'd hear about it. Some guys put 10k miles on their first year and a lot of guys are as green as grass when it comes to engine stuff. They're not afraid to speak up. I wish all my customers were as slick as you and Rory, but that very rarely is the case.
LOL, fair enough. ;)
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I think this is a silly and unanswerable argument.
The guys who paint haven't seen a failure...and the guys who don't paint haven't seen one.
Of course, you can say "in theory" the paint can fail...but you can also say "in theory" the paint can be a binder or adhesive. Nobody is talking real testing or differences in gasket material or paint or prep, it's all inference or circumstantial discussion.
I am also not buying the OEMs were that careful, they painted over all kinds of stuff and missed lots of others and were generally as inconsistent as heck. As an example, would you recommend painting a soft rubber hose with a petroleum-based paint and reducer? Probably not, but Ford did, they doused a CJ bypass like a fat kid's fries with ketchup
I prep the surface and I paint, without fear, both with urethane single stage on concours engines and spray cans on others. I have yet to have a single water pump leak on mine or a customer's engine, EVER, in 40 years of building all kinds of engines, but admittedly my own 489 FE has only been together, with water in it, for 18 (soon 19) years.
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I think this is a silly and unanswerable argument.
The guys who paint haven't seen a failure...and the guys who don't paint haven't seen one.
Of course, you can say "in theory" the paint can fail...but you can also say "in theory" the paint can be a binder or adhesive. Nobody is talking real testing or differences in gasket material or paint or prep, it's all inference or circumstantial discussion.
I am also not buying the OEMs were that careful, they painted over all kinds of stuff and missed lots of others and were generally as inconsistent as heck. As an example, would you recommend painting a soft rubber hose with a petroleum-based paint and reducer? Probably not, but Ford did, they doused a CJ bypass like a fat kid's fries with ketchup
I prep the surface and I paint, without fear, both with urethane single stage on concours engines and spray cans on others. I have yet to have a single water pump leak on mine or a customer's engine, EVER, in 40 years of building all kinds of engines, but admittedly my own 489 FE has only been together, with water in it, for 18 (soon 19) years.
Fwiw, I'm in the "it's not likely to leak" camp. To be sure, I hope my comments are taken as constructive discussion and not to advance the unanswerable argument.
I think it's weird how folks focused on whether or not it will leak. The OP didn't ask if it will leak. I thought someone would comment on use of rtv silicone. I don't believe that's necessary for water pumps. I've used lithium grease to dress the gaskets and even tried silicone dielectric grease....makes removal later a lot easier. I think I got that idea from Brent. Then I'll use thread sealant on the bolts.
Also fwiw, like I said earlier, any paint trapped by the gasket will likely stay in place until the pump is removed down the road. I wouldn't over spray the area because any paint not trapped by the gasket (especially rattle can paint) will likely lift and end up in the coolant as non-dissolving skins...maybe in the t-stat or radiator but most likely stuck in the pump where no one will know. And no, that's not theory. So that's kinda like dropping a cookie, picking it up and eating it...not likely to hurt you but do you want to eat it?
Since you mentioned hoses, a guy would have to go out of their way to cause failure with paint. There are a few common automotive chemicals that should never be applied to certain types of hoses. I'll leave that discussion for another time. :)
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JMO, but the type of paint used would be the real issue of whether it softens or not. An Engine enamel or high temperature paint should not soften with water/antifreeze/oil. I found that if you use ceramic caliper paint or ceramic aluminum wheel paint that it will withstand just about any engine liquid. Joe-JDC
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Guys are worried if paint on a gasket flange could degrade and get into a vintage engine cooling system where you could toss a decent sized cat through the smallest opening.
Three threads from now somebody will recommend spray painting their head gaskets, somebody else will spray can their own piston coatings with a kit from Amazon, and next week another guy will be buttering his intake valley with glyptol.
What a world.... ;D
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Guys are worried if paint on a gasket flange could degrade and get into a vintage engine cooling system where you could toss a decent sized cat through the smallest opening.
Three threads from now somebody will recommend spray painting their head gaskets, somebody else will spray can their own piston coatings with a kit from Amazon, and next week another guy will be buttering his intake valley with glyptol.
What a world.... ;D
Whoever started the glyptal trend needed to be tarred and feathered.
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Guys are worried if paint on a gasket flange could degrade and get into a vintage engine cooling system where you could toss a decent sized cat through the smallest opening.
Three threads from now somebody will recommend spray painting their head gaskets, somebody else will spray can their own piston coatings with a kit from Amazon, and next week another guy will be buttering his intake valley with glyptol.
What a world.... ;D
Whoever started the glyptal trend needed to be tarred and feathered.
Barry/Brent - Amen!
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Guys are worried if paint on a gasket flange could degrade and get into a vintage engine cooling system where you could toss a decent sized cat through the smallest opening.
For me, It's not about pieces getting into the cooling system, but rather if it would cause the pump to start weeping or leaking.
Following the logic, If it's nothing to worry about, why worry about painting over the intake sealing surface? Or a carburetor pad? Just use a fuel resistant paint, right? Of course nobody does that...
And Ross, didn't the factory paint the engine as an assembled unit? Wouldn't the sealing surfaces have been clean and bare when assembled then? So I fail to see the point in saying that the factory wasn't that "careful".
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Yes, they painted them assembled, my point was they also painted the rubber bypass hose and hose clamps. So to me, any "fancy forethought" of what the effects of paint had on parts and sealing, likely were only those of convenience and assembly speed.
With an iron pump, painting it all was easier on the assembly line. In fact, if I have an all iron one, I paint it assembled too, why paint a bare block when you need to paint the pump and bolts too? However, if an alum pump, I paint the block and do not scrape it. If we want to get real geeky, what happens to the hoses and edges of the gaskets when paint leaches under them? Again not an issue in the real world, but neither is paint or no paint.
My larger point is that we are arguing about something we have never tested formally. Some of us think the paint will fail, some think it won't, neither have had an issue. That's the punch line, the water pump...machined surfaces on both sides...likely has the easiest pair of surfaces to seal on the entire FE, other than being careful on the one bolt threaded into the water jacket. You can go paint or no paint, sealer or no sealer, cheap or expensive gasket, I never see ANY leak. So no testing, no failures, seems like a lot for nothing.
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Guys are worried if paint on a gasket flange could degrade and get into a vintage engine cooling system where you could toss a decent sized cat through the smallest opening.
Three threads from now somebody will recommend spray painting their head gaskets, somebody else will spray can their own piston coatings with a kit from Amazon, and next week another guy will be buttering his intake valley with glyptol.
What a world.... ;D
For clarity, I don't recall anyone feeling worried about what could happen if a few little paint skins got into the cooling system. In fact I said it wouldn't likely hurt anything. Since the OP asked, I thought it'd be nice to know and let them decide if it would bother them.
Also for clarity, I appreciate the different points of view especially from folks who've done this for a while. That's a lot better way for me to learn then when I mess something up and learn the hard way.
As an aside, I helped someone root and flush a double handful of powdery debris from their new (aftermarket) block coolant jacket. It didn't seem to hurt cooling but the guy didn't want to just leave it in there. My guess it was residue from previous engine(s) on the dyno. So I got to help remedy someone else's lackadaisical coolant hygiene.
For not caring if debris gets into the coolant I'm guessing Barry is one who goes pee with the seat still down...
And to repeat what I said earlier, I still think that looks like a gnarly paint job. It's no where near as neat as Brent's example. I would scrape that off before installing the pump.
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If we are not careful, a college professor will snag an $8.7Billion grant to study this subject.
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I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s comments. I haven’t 100% decided what I’ll do with the water flanges but I probably won’t mention it either way! I also learned I shouldn’t label any post as an easy question.
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I think we should start talking about paint versus cast iron porosity and significant shrinkage Jerry.
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So is there a best color of glyptal :o
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I have been at this for nearly 62 years, and I have not had any problems with paint softening on the engine from a gasket install. However, when I do install a gasket on most engine surfaces, I simply clean them with acetone/lacquer thinner first before applying any adhesive or in some cases white lithium if I am going to be back into the engine as in a dyno session. I do have a 428CJ that had the lifter valley painted with Sherwin Williams glyptol paint back in 1981 and the paint is still holding up just fine. If you respect Jon Kaase's engine building abilities, then you need to check out his 1000hp build of a 598 BB Ford and look at the interior of his block. If the block is prepped properly the correct paint will adhere in the interior of the block and not flake/peel/or soften with oil or water present. Argue about something that needs fixing. Joe-JDC
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I have been at this for nearly 62 years, and I have not had any problems with paint softening on the engine from a gasket install. However, when I do install a gasket on most engine surfaces, I simply clean them with acetone/lacquer thinner first before applying any adhesive or in some cases white lithium if I am going to be back into the engine as in a dyno session. I do have a 428CJ that had the lifter valley painted with Sherwin Williams glyptol paint back in 1981 and the paint is still holding up just fine. If you respect Jon Kaase's engine building abilities, then you need to check out his 1000hp build of a 598 BB Ford and look at the interior of his block. If the block is prepped properly the correct paint will adhere in the interior of the block and not flake/peel/or soften with oil or water present. Argue about something that needs fixing. Joe-JDC
I don't think anyone is arguing. We're just talking paint properties. You mentioned
paint and gasket installs. If you have a paint that remains intact upon removing a water pump gasket after years of service, can you tell me what it is? Not being ornery. I've just never seen intact paint after removing a gasket. That would be a paint worth using.
Painting a lifter valley is actually easier on paint...motor oil is normally not very aggressive. Though I would never paint a lifter valley. Also, paint made 40 years ago is often better because they could use chemistries that are illegal today.
I have no idea what Kaase Racing is using for paint. Their engines start at over $20K so they maybe using two component products or even baked on finishes that out perform typical engine enamels. Single stage urethanes (like Ross mentioned) would cost around $150 ish or more per engine unless you are doing a lot of engines and can get bulk discount. And you'd want a full face mask because isocyanates can be nasty to inhale or get in your eyes. Average guy wouldn't likely use those.
Again, not arguing here. I know paint and will help if I can. And what else is there to talk about? The FE world is shrinking. :( The videos Jay posted on sohc rockers was cool.
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Did someone mention Glyptal ? I watched a guy pour some oil in his lifter valley that had that stuff painted on it and I don't think I've ever seen oil drain back that fast to the pan ever , it was like the oil had roller skates on. :)
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Has anyone ever done a drain-back A/B test between natural cast iron and Glyptal painted?
To this day, I've never seen an instance where I thought I needed something like that.
Was at Kaase's shop a decade or so ago dyno'ing an engine. Walked through his engine assembly room, where he had a couple of large inch Hemi/Mountain Motor type builds going on. I don't remember seeing any Glyptal on any of them. Now, that's not to say that he hasn't changed techniques or did something special in particular for an EMC build.
I will tell you that I'm in contact with a lot of engine builders who build some really high end engines, heads-up drag race engines, pulling truck, dirt track, etc. They don't use the stuff and their engines live just fine. That kinda tells me that it's a preference kind of thing.
Anyone ever seen a cast aluminum block with Glyptal in the lifter valley? My guess is that you wouldn't want to put it on an aluminum block because they squirm around so much with heat, but that also tells me that with the amount of aluminum blocks out there in extremely high performance/race applications, the paint just isn't necessary.
Keith Craft's shop used to Glyptal everything, even their cylinder heads. I've seen heads with that stuff on them and it has flaked/worn off from where the spring locators had went on and moved around.
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Anyone ever seen a cast aluminum block with Glyptal in the lifter valley? My guess is that you wouldn't want to put it on an aluminum block because they squirm around so much with heat, but that also tells me that with the amount of aluminum blocks out there in extremely high performance/race applications, the paint just isn't necessary.
Aluminum can be tricky. I've done pull testing where a formula exceeded requirements on one panel and was complete fail on another panel from the same lot of panels. I honestly have not been involved with aluminum enough to know why. A fellow has to be real careful how the surface is prepared. I just know it made we want to climb a tree and sit in it.
By surface prep, I mean how the aluminum product is prepared by the manufacturer…not anything the typical person can do at home.
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Brent , they had it in the heads to, but he was pouring the oil in the valley and I remember thinking it was really fast flow to the drains and I was impressed but like you I thought about what if it flakes off
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Faster oil drain back might have been Glyptal's secondary benefit. Glyptal has been around for a hundred years. Its primary purpose was to seal porous castings. Racers have been using it for decades. Not only to seal holes, but to seal in casting and machining debris. The Glypal would keep casting sand sealed up in the casting so that it wouldn't detach and migrate through the engine. Engines were very dirty up until modern foundry operations. Glyptal is also a good way to keep an engine's insides very clean which makes seasonal rebuilds easier since some soap and a hose is enough to give a block a good cleaning. Using Glyptal will not harm anything. It just takes time to apply.
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I am not a Glyptal fan. I never applied it, so I can't speak to that, but I have had two come in from respected builders, one which was a new Genesis block that came in with unrelated spun bearings.
That Genesis was flaking, but, when I decided I wanted it off, some came off with my nail, some with a pressure washer, some in a hot tank, and some wouldn't at all. It took forever to get to where I trusted putting it back together
As far as improved drain back, compared to a dry iron block, maybe, but once that block has oil on it, I would be surprised if it does anything. Just speculation though.
I can't comment on the sealing, but I always thought it was for electrical motors in some way. However, please never ask me to use it, and if it's on the engine, I am not very happy to hot tank and rebuild :)
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Paint adhesion problems are 99% of the time a surface preparation failure; whether it be chemical contamination or surface texture; if the paint falling off a surface is not degraded by environmental exposures, then the fault "most" likely is not that of the paint itself. ;)
As far as for painting the interior of a block or of the cylinder heads, this was often practiced by manufactures for the purpose of sealing the cast surfaces, this preventing the release of unsecured particulate that remained post manufacturing even with reasonable cleaning efforts, this that otherwise would be released into the lubricating oil with the heat and vibration in operation; only later was it deemed valuable as an accelerant for oil drain-back in performance applications.
Getting back to the issues of paint adherence, new casting components that haven't been exposed to contaminants under heat, pressure and vibratory effects generally can be cleaned sufficiently for painting; but engines that have being operating for sometimes great periods of time it's nearly impossible to remove these contaminants (particularly oils) from the parent material, and even though the surface may seem to have been adequately cleaned, the "stuff" will rise out of the porous casting when in service and this often is what lifts the paint.
This issue is why many engine builders, and ourselves included, in instances requiring such considerations adopted polishing the surfaces rather than coating them, definitely takes longer with greater effort, but it is a permanent solution once completed. :)
Scott.
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I look at "glyptol" or other internal engine paint on a risk vs reward basis.
The perceived reward is either a cleaner assembly or improved oil drawback - maybe both.
If you've ever accidentally kicked over a drain pan of warm oil - you know that it really needs no help flowing at all.
I always figured that if you needed paint in the valley to retain debris - you did not clean it well enough.
Nobody that I am aware of is painting the insides of passages where debris really likes to hide.
The risk is if the stuff comes unattached in some fashion.
In comparison to the cooling passages - the internal engine is an area where a wandering chunk of paint can cause catastrophic failure.
Small reward - big risk = no reason to do it.
I have a wife and three daughters.
The toilet seat at my house may as well be bolted down permanently.....
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If we are not careful, a college professor will snag an $8.7Billion grant to study this subject.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Do they make any kind of industrial paint slathering for the outside of these porous aftermarket blocks? Whoops, did I say that out loud?
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Do they make any kind of industrial paint slathering for the outside of these porous aftermarket blocks? Whoops, did I say that out loud?
Opening another can of worms here ;D. I use 3 coats PPG Epoxi primer outside the block to seal the pores
not sweating of oil or lifted paint for many years. And i also grade of all sharp corners beacuse the paint tend to creap away
from sharp corners. And thats on porous stock blocks never had an aftermarket block and probably will never have one
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbfwb9qf/image-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7Cbvsfk5)
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Do they make any kind of industrial paint slathering for the outside of these porous aftermarket blocks? Whoops, did I say that out loud?
Makes me sad to think I have a FAST build coming up and a truck puller and need to buy at least one more.
Do they make any kind of industrial paint slathering for the outside of these porous aftermarket blocks? Whoops, did I say that out loud?
Opening another can of worms here ;D. I use 3 coats PPG Epoxi primer outside the block to seal the pores
not sweating of oil or lifted paint for many years. And i also grade of all sharp corners beacuse the paint tend to creap away
from sharp corners. And thats on porous stock blocks never had an aftermarket block and probably will never have one
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbfwb9qf/image-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7Cbvsfk5)
When I do the concours paint, I use PPG JP375 primer, thinned as their instructions to use as a sealer/adhesion coat not a surfacer. I just have no desire to go back and sand and it would look wrong for a concours build. Tricky thing on 375 is you have to let it sit in the cup or gun for 5-10 minutes (depends on whose instructions you use) for the hardener to activate before spraying. However, most guys like to mix and go, myself included, so I have to walk around the shop, comtemplate life, wipe it down again with a tack cloth, etc. ;D
Of course I did paint this one with bare metal under the water pump :) but note how the bypass hose, stainless clamps, PCV rubber lines, all get paint if you did it like the factory did.
This one was bare iron, cleaned with cheap thinner, then PPG grease and oil remover, then tacked, JP375 (which is also an etching primer), then 15 minute later topcoat with PPG single stage urethane
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I always figured that if you needed paint in the valley to retain debris - you did not clean it well enough.
The consideration here is for that foreign material/particulate which is entrapped within the casting surfaces as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, and then also any material that may be lodged in the surface structure through impingement, particularly for example any media blasting event; and it is often not possible to thoroughly remove this material in one's typical cleaning processes (nylon brushes w/ solvents, soap & water) even with the best of efforts. :)
Scott.
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I always figured that if you needed paint in the valley to retain debris - you did not clean it well enough.
The consideration here is for that foreign material/particulate which is entrapped within the casting surfaces as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, and then also any material that may be lodged in the surface structure through impingement, particularly for example any media blasting event; and it is often not possible to thoroughly remove this material in one's typical cleaning processes (nylon brushes w/ solvents, soap & water) even with the best of efforts. :)
Scott.
I think everyone understands the claims, the argument is risk/reward and validity of those claims. If you like to do it, we won't tease you :) However, I have fought with the aftermath enough that I won't add that funk to a block, and if it's there and shows any distress at any point, I do my best to make it go away, which ranges from watching it fall off in sheets to not being able to remove (all on the same component). That's the issue for me.
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Note that I was not advocating for or against the painting process, but rather just discussing the reasoning for such. :)
Scott.
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I have seen it inside several Army engines probably to prevent rust
when the vehicles was cold stored for years. looks like they were first
glyptalised, probably diped. And then machined
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............... looks like they were first glyptalised, probably diped. And then machined
Yes, this was the most common practice; once the raw casting had been prepared for transitioning to the machining processes (removal of casting sand, excess material & flashing) they would be painted ("sealed") before actual machining. :)
Scott.