FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on November 02, 2021, 04:31:48 PM
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i just installed a nx kit on my 428.any thing i need to do or check before using.retard timing,colder plugs,wot switch,purge kit, race gas, bottle pressure 950 area. im running a 4 speed so i thought i might use the wot switch instead or with the push button.any suggestions? im going to use the 100 shot jets.
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Start small, pull timing out and don't get greedy. Learn to read the plugs as they will tell you what is going on. Colder plug will help
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Make sure you have a spare shortblock.
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Just go to NX sight and check out there power tuning guide. 150 shot or less and you will have no problems tuning for it.
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Fuel pressure is absolutely the most important thing. If you want to just t off of the mechanical pump don't plan on spraying for long. I use an extra electric pump that turns on when the system is armed. I have had good luck 200+ 1/8th mile passes spraying 150 445FE.
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Make sure you have a spare shortblock.
not looking for s.a. comments like this.do you say the same thing to the big dogs shooting for 900-1000 hp? no,i have noticed you are polite to them. i may not be a big dog,im low buck,but i take my FEs seriously.i have been running them for 40+ years. i plan on staying small with the nitrous but i know what the possibility's are. thanks for the other replies.i will remember to check the plugs,they should look close to new after a pass is what i heard
It is easy to understand you are offended by the shortblock comment, but maybe....just maybe, you were getting good advice, even if you don't want to hear this advice.
The learning curve is pretty high when it comes to NO2. I have lost count at the number of blown engines at the drag strip, or on the street, by those who were CERTAIN they had all their ducks in a row, only to find out they did not.
There are signs to look for, and sounds to listen for, but it seems many want the set up to be right based more on what they have been told, rather than verifying it is right based on what their tune is telling them....and often comes the boom...at which point the extra shortblock is required.
Timing alterations under spray are critical...get them right and verify they are working properly.
Fuel management is critical under spray....get it right and verify.
When you are at the track attempting to make your run...pay effing attention and stop when it does not sound right.
We have all heard the new NO2 guy in the burnout box with the popping, sputtering, fire out the pipe engine that is screaming "No, it's not right yet, check a few things"
Followed by the starting line sputtering rev and loading of the converter.
Followed by the green light full throttle launch that lasts about 18" with the big underhood fire and subsequent BANG.....and now it is lunch time because the starting line needs to be cleaned and prepped again.
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i am running a 125gph electric,with a 100 shot ONLY 100.I WILL NEVER GO ANY HIGHER. im sure i could blow it to kingdom come if i was one of those guys who go for glory,no im not listening to friends.im a big thinker.i will probably tripple check everything before trying it and then i will never hold it on for over 5 seconds with a 100 shot.no the s.a. comment was not good advice.im staying small and it will mostly be used as a scramble button.i may blow all to hell but it wont be from lack of research.i read the nx instructions and tips SEVERAL times already and i will read it again before trying.thanks for reminding me about fuel pressure.i even changed my fuel filters just to make sure of good flow and pressure.i knew ahead of time someone one would say something like i hope you have a spare.that kind of comment usually comes from someone who has never tried nitrous.im not offended ,just disappointing that someone on a quality FE learning site saying that.i have been thinking about trying it for a long time,not just throwing the nitrous at it to see what it will do.im the guy who has already changed his oil 5 times on a 4000 mile FE. FALLGUY,thanks for telling me you made over 200 passes with a 150 shot,now me spraying 100 for no more than 5 seconds at a time.ever once in a while.im guessing a full bottle will last me a year or two or three.if nothing happens.i got in a street race last week with a sbc nova.we stayed side buy side till my big block finally started pullig ahead.if i would of had my nitrous up and running i would have used it as a scramble button to pull way ahead.knock on wood.im 6 for 6 on the local streets with my new motor.but im running other cars of the same caliber.no big dogs,just gt mustangs,camaros etc.
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when I did my 416 in 2000 I was planning on a 250 shot , D2 thick wall block with Program cross bolt main caps , even did a 1/2 block fill on a thick wall block :) lol , Ross forged pistons , Eagle rods H Beam (knowing what I know now I would choose a I beam rod ) , never did end up putting a plate system on but I would probably base line with 4 to 6 degrees taking out and maybe slowly put a little timing back after a good plug reading
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You can build in as many safeties as you want. Example, a fuel pressure switch that shuts off nitrous, when fuel pressure is below a desired number. I like the idea of a micro switch on the throttle linkage, then you can “pedal” based on traction, or just getting used to the violence of nitrous oxide power. Also, to consider- timing controls, progressive nitrous controllers. If precautions are taken, Nitrous is a very fun product.
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There are always risks when using N2O.
Having a spare short block is not an insulting comment - more on the truthful side.
Should a fuel solenoid fail - pistons will melt and a new short block would be a "good to have".
Many have run low levels of nitrous for many years without issues.
However, there are also many that have had failures of one sort or another that destroyed engine parts.
I agree nitrous is a fun addition - but be aware of the "side effects" Nitrous adverse reactions can sometimes bite the best of us.
Good luck! Cool car too!
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>not looking for s.a. comments like this.do you say the same thing to the big dogs shooting for 900-1000 hp?
Yes. Having worked with a track for 18 years, all you need is that fuel solenoid to not fire or be late and we're mopping up your junk. If you get lucky you might only be out a carb, maybe an intake and if we find the pieces you can have all of them. Basic cheap kits, 2-3-4-5 stages, sparks out the headers, plugs with no electrodes after a pass - all of that.
All that to say you best have any amount of spray and the equipment spot on, or you best have a backup plan. I know a bunch of performance machinists and shops - and to a person, they LOVE nitrous because it brings them business. Business fixing broken stuff.
100 shot will easily melt piston tops and/or blow the intake off the car if the fuel solenoid mis-fires. I run a 250 GPH pump and would pretty much consider that a minimum for adding spray on the car if tapping off the existing fuel supply. Or run a separate tank and pump for the nitrous fuel supply.
The reason I don't use spray right now is that I have other expenses and would not do it - not even a 50 shot - without all the support equipment like bottle heaters, regulators, pressure shutoffs, controller, etc, etc, etc. Lots of people have fun with the small 50-100 shot kits. At the same time we've sent more than a couple of cars out the gate on a rollback.
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my pistons are supposed to be good up to 300 shot.as i mentioned i will never go over the 100 shot.i have all my grounds wired together so i hope if something goes wrong it will shut everything off.im using a wot switch so if i let off for any reason it will shut off. no 2-3-4 stages no 250 shot.keeping it small and simple as possible.i believe i would have to be a complete idiot to destroy a well built engine with a 100 shot.when i picked my engine up at s&g machine in bristol tn.the first thing larry sneed said was boy that would make a nice nitrous engine.he has drag raced fords for over 50 years with much success and many track records over the years.
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From my humble opinion, it looks like you’ve covered your bases well. 100 h.p. kit is not going to hurt anything, maybe the asphalt will feel punished a bit is all.
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I say run the snot outa it. Good fuel delivery, good electrical supply to solenoids, use good quality relays, do your homework and let er eat..
Have you ran the car hard on all motor and have a good tune? How about traction ? Got your clutch figured out ? Maybe use a timing retard and bring the nitrous in at the 2/3 shift and run it out the back door. Hammer down..
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I say run the snot outa it. Good fuel delivery, good electrical supply to solenoids, use good quality relays, do your homework and let er eat..
Have you ran the car hard on all motor and have a good tune? How about traction ? Got your clutch figured out ? Maybe use a timing retard and bring the nitrous in at the 2/3 shift and run it out the back door. Hammer down..
car hooks good, clutch is fine,you are right i wont need it out of the hole,first gear is wound up as soon as i hit it.ready to shift in about a second or two.i plan on using it in the upper gears.i have been on my 6500 rev limiter many times, 7000 a few times.i keep it as well tuned as i am capable of.i have put 5 or 6 sets of plugs already in a 4000 mile engine.i also had my carb apart 5 or 6 times till i was happy with it.
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.i got in a street race last week with a sbc nova.we stayed side buy side till my big block finally started pullig ahead.if i would of had my nitrous up and running i would have used it as a scramble button to pull way ahead.knock on wood.im 6 for 6 on the local streets with my new motor.but im running other cars of the same caliber.no big dogs,just gt mustangs,camaros etc.
Maybe the quote should of been to have a spare car ready! Now I have been in street races before but none since the '70s when the streets were a lot more empty and no one drove around on cell phones. While I will punch it now and then for a short distance I certainly wouldn't engage in a street race these days. Lot's of places will impound and sell off the cars of people caught street racing and forget about renewing your insurance. Better to bait the other cars and arrange to meet them at the local track. You can have a lot of fun on a grudge night and if you bring sticky tires and are good on the lights you can even take out cars that are faster than you.
just my 2cents
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From my humble opinion, it looks like you’ve covered your bases well. 100 h.p. kit is not going to hurt anything, maybe the asphalt will feel punished a bit is all.
At the cubic inch capacity, if in sound condition, if in a proper state of tune now, you follow the directions, install the "kit" properly, establish sufficient fuel delivery, at 100 H.P., you should have no problems, other than refilling the bottle! ;D
At this H.P. level, again, if in a proper state of tune now, even a timing retard sum should not be required; remember, the "kits" (particularly "novice kits") are jetted overly rich intentionally to actually reduce the operating cylinder temperature. ;)
There is increased load on components, so if your engine is ready for the junk yard then well................. ::)
In the late '70's worked with Marvin Miller (of M.M. N2O, remember him? ??? ) , we came up with the first N20 "Cheater" plate system (this was before Nitrous Oxide Systems existed) with my own drill bits (no jets yet! :o ) going back & forth with calculations for area & flow sums, taking his 75 H.P. plate up to.......(?); well, my F350 4 X 4 (1-ton) P.U. with 400 engine (167 H.P.), C6 and 14" x 36" x 16.5" (big in the day ::)!) tires ran 14.30's in the quarter (O.K. not a great accomplishment, but otherwise it ran in the low to mid 20's, with out a headwind ::)!). After we establish values for the "Cheater" kits, I proceeded to see just how far I could go with N2O injection and I actually got to the point of pressuring the intake causing the carburetor to shut-down which didn't work very well. :o
I had tired of the constant requirement for bottle refilling (in those days one turned their bottle in to the filling station, who then had to ship it to another town to be filled and back, this all requiring a week :(!), and for my off-road excursions (greater durations of nitrous operation...even minutes vs. seconds :o!), I adopted a 55-pound bottle (steel, yes it was heavy, but so what, it's mounted in a one-ton truck ::)!) behind the seat, that at times I would be 'on-the-juice" for so long the the 55-pound steel bottle, as big and heavy as it was (if I recall about 180 lbs.; was a mother to load in the truck by one person......me :P!) would frost! 8)
The only failure the engine suffered was a melted exhaust valve head that 'flowed' out the exhaust port. I pulled the one head, had Fred Kinney @ BoLaws Automotive R & R the one valve, total cost was $12.55, I think the cheapest anyone ever was billed by the establishment, and I was back in business! It was funny, when I presented the cylinder head to Fred on the bench, he looked at the carbon in the cylinder chambers which had all formed into little spheres (looks like little balls of mercury only black and hard as rock :o.) he said what the heck is that (remember nitrous was not common at this time)? That's what happens after five or so minutes amounting to 40 or so pounds of constant nitrous operation; I said I was attempting to make artificial diamonds! ::)
And, the 400 had the stock cast pistons without a failure! 8)
Oh, but on the nitrous, due avoid the rev-limiter, as though possible, hopefully not an induction back-fire, but it sure can be hard on the exhaust system (the mufflers just open up at the seams ;)!)
Scott.
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that last reply makes me feel a lot better.i will just be using it for a few seconds with some good forged alu pistons and you used it for minutes with cast pistons.i may turn my rev limiter off and just keep my eye on the rpms to help avoid backfire.thanks for all the replies.i feel a lot better informed now and some of you have my confidence built up.
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.i got in a street race last week with a sbc nova.we stayed side buy side till my big block finally started pullig ahead.if i would of had my nitrous up and running i would have used it as a scramble button to pull way ahead.knock on wood.im 6 for 6 on the local streets with my new motor.but im running other cars of the same caliber.no big dogs,just gt mustangs,camaros etc.
Maybe the quote should of been to have a spare car ready! Now I have been in street races before but none since the '70s when the streets were a lot more empty and no one drove around on cell phones. While I will punch it now and then for a short distance I certainly wouldn't engage in a street race these days. Lot's of places will impound and sell off the cars of people caught street racing and forget about renewing your insurance. Better to bait the other cars and arrange to meet them at the local track. You can have a lot of fun on a grudge night and if you bring sticky tires and are good on the lights you can even take out cars that are faster than you.
just my 2cents
i would never race in the city streets,all the locals meet in the country where we have a 1/4 mile marked off,no houses for miles,law dont like to go to there unless they have to.in the winter we would build a bon fire on the side of the road and race all night,if cops did come they would stop,back up and turn around and leave.i got caught making a hit down the road about 1 mile from my house.i blasted through the gears not knowing he was behind me.i told my son who was with me that i might be going to jail.all the cop said was you need to take that thing down to the county road.he knew about the spot.the track is fun too.i got lucky the first time i took it to the track i got down to 4 cars before i missed 3rd gear with my 4 speed and got inched at the finish line.semi finals first time out
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We just installed a 100 shot on a 15 Mustang v6 , got the car from his wife but has a neighbor with a 18 Camero that he could only keep up with to 70 mph and then fall back, I haven’t heard back yet but it least he hasn’t called back wanting a 150 shot
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Probably the man with the most experience with 'spray' is Barry. I'd have a talk with him.
My first 'bottle-fed' experiment was back in the late '70s. I was running a turbo and decided to use the bottle instead of building an intercooler system. I also decided to run methanol with the spray system. Use a completely dedicated system with a five gallon fuel cell to hold the alcohol. Used a return design with a fuel pressure-based bypass to return the extra fuel. Electric pump solely for the methanol. This was a purely street vehicle.
I used the same basic layout on my land speed car, but that was not turbo'd. I was sponsored by NX during that time and they were very good about suggestions. They supply an instruction manual that's more than 100 pages long, and are always happy to talk. I used a nozzle system mounted just before the throttle body and had jets and plumbing able to produce in excess of 500 HP. The combo I used to set the records, (4X in one day) only supplied a bit less than a 200 'bump' but it was good enough to set a record in E/F Comp Coupe/Sedan that still stands. This is one mile standing start on concrete with ECTA sanction.
You may not want to go to the extra effort of using methanol, but it is VERY forgiving. Methanol has an anti-knock rating of about 120 octane and can be run VERY rich. Down close to 4-to-1. It just makes more power the richer you make it. But beware of the possibility of hydraulic-locking a cylinder. Due to the properties of methanol, I simply put in one step colder plugs and didn't bother with timing changes.
KS
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No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃
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No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃
BUT! ::)
I also decided to run methanol with the spray system.
Scott.
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Having run countless bottles through cars over the years the first and most overlooked thing is . IS THE CAR PREPARED ??? 100 HP isnt much but it wont end there , never does . But even at 100HP depending on how hot the thing is already you are throwing a ton more at the car. Axles , rear , trans ? Ive seen plenty of broken parts that had survived countless passes before the kit was installed . Is this just for fun with street tires or are you gonna hook this thing up and try to get some numbers on the board ? Driveshaft ? Loop ? I think you get the point . Is the car itself prepared for what you are about to do to it. A good plate system can be pretty violent which is why I might ad the part that makes it so addictive.
As far as the engine itself .
You really should open up the ring gaps on the pistons altho I will say I have done it up to a 250 shot with OEM ring gaps and cast pistons , Im not recommending that as there was alcohol involved and a fair amount of prior knowledge of running NOS on a car. Im just saying that for reference . Nitrous gets a bad wrap not because of it but because of the people that tried to use it and didnt take the steps you are trying to take.
Fuel , As mentioned you need plenty of fuel on both sides . Ive always run a carb that was a bit fat and then a separate fuel system with pressure guage for the N2O. Being too fat is always safer even if it is knocking a bit of performance off of it.
Timing , Ive always gone with a baseline of 4 degrees for every 100 added but thats not a set in stone thing. There are other factors aside from whats being added such as compression. Timing as well as a lean condition can kill quickly so be conservative with your numbers. Dont tune this thing for maximum output right off the bat . Tune it to be safe. If you cant safely run it over and over again you really cant get a good handle on anything right ?
Plugs . This is another thing not set in stone but colder colder colder. If you burn any electrodes you have something wrong. Back up the timing and if that doesnt do it back the plugs up a little more.
Wiring. This is another overlooked thing and ive seen many failures do to crappy wiring. Wire this system like you are working for NASA . All high quality wire and soldered connections . Dont leave a single part of it that you might feel is not quite up to snuff . You of course need an "Armed" switch and I prefer a light somewhere yelling at you that its armed . And I prefer to use a throttle activated switch . I dont care for the micro switches and prefer the leash type switches that the throttle is pulling against and you adjust it so that the right amount of throttle activates it. Then you can run interrupt switches like for instance for a clutch .
Controller . Do some controller research and you wont regret it . Controllers really took all of the fun out of it in a way and made it very scientific and docile. Its really your baby sitter and keeps you from screwing up . You really get the most out of a system using a controller. I wasnt for them at the beginning when they were new as it added some complexity but they are well worth the extra hassle.
With all that said. Remember that the engine you have there might be 25 HP shy of spitting a rod bolt out . I dont know how hot it is already but maybe its 75 HP away from splitting the block ? My point is that N2O gets blamed for all those failures as well but it was just a case of the parts being over powered . Even if you are meticulously careful with the system you always run that risk .
Nitrous is a ton of fun in my opinion and as far as bang for the buck it cannot be beat ! Just remember its only going to be as safe and reliable as the work you put into the system .
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thank you Blueoval,that is all the stuff i have been waiting to hear! my carb is allready fat,just upgraded flywheel,clutch,trans,rear.engine is a good 450+HP maybe a little more,never dynoed.im using 4 speed and wot switch,what did you mean interrupt switch for the clutch? my son is wiring it up for me.he has rolls of quality wire he ordered.not bragging because he is my son,just stating a fact,he is one hell of a electrician. and he is a perfectionist.im an older man and i will be mostly playing with it on the streets.i was thinking about throwing my bigger jets away.i wont be using them.my limit for this engine is 100.its well built at the machine shop of a ford guy in his late 60s.who has raced fords for over 40 years.it might hold a 250 shot many times but im not looking to come anywhere near maxing out. can you explain what the controller does too.i understand the risks involved.i could throw a big solid cam in it and head work and i could lose an engine,many ways to blow one up.i have never been a finger pointer.if things happen to me its bad luck or my fault.i would never talk bad about any power adder.i have been a race fan since i was 5 or 6 when i went to the track and watched my dad and uncle race.i got my first fe when i was 12.a 390 out of a 63 gal moonshine car.it had a nice 2 4bbl intake on it.i put it in my comet for a few years.it outran all my buddies in school.
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No timing changes.......I'll wait for the pinched ring land thread 🙃
BUT! ::)
I also decided to run methanol with the spray system.
Thank you for the emphasis. It's exactly the point I was making. I'd never attempt the stuff I did (and will do) if I were to be running the best of race gas. By the way, not mentioned above is that the entire engine fuel system had been optimized for, and ran on, C16. I was a bit leery of the strength of the transmission, as well, and although the spray system was completely ready to go, I didn't click the switch until I'd shifted into third, and I didn't purge the nitrous oxide line before starting the run. This had the effect of softening the 'hit'.
KS
Scott.
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Again , Im not sure what you are doing with this thing . I am guilty of not reading this entire thread so forgive me . You could put 250 HP pills in the plate and the controller can bring in as little or as much as you like for as long as you like . A controller can bring in 50HP From activation to 3 seconds lets say and then 100 from 3 to 7 then on and on and on.... Or , lets say it takes that car 12 seconds to be in 4th gear . You can set it to bring that 100 in at 12 seconds or a softer 50 at 12 seconds and then ramp up over the next few seconds. You get the idea and its been a few years since I myself have played with them so they may even offer a massage after the race at this point... Do some reading and dont skimp on that either.
As for the interrupt . I dont know how you shift the car but I myself am a no lift shift kinda guy . If you have an interrupt in the system it can deactivate each time the clutch is depressed . Again , this is tough with microswitches so find the switch that has a leash on it and its far easier to tune. The reason is the same as the throttle . The micro switch has to be right at the end of travel and that can be unreliable because they are so small and mounting and etc etc. When its pulling a leash (Or tether) to activate or deactivate you have an easier time and its more reliable.
Having the timing retard itself is also nice . That way the car isnt a complete turd running around late in time because you mechanically dropped it back.Then when the system is activated it retards on its own . Of course test all of this with the car running and the bottle and fuel turned off. See with your own eyes that its doing what it should do.
No mistakes..... Mistakes KILL engines with N2O.... Each and every time ive seen a grenaded engine over the years on a car that was using it it was something overlooked or something failed in the system that was done right . In the very early days I had a machinist (Because he had the right size drills) open every one of my fuel pills a touch larger .
On that note I should have included in the first post. If you activate the system and you do not feel it come in LET OFF , DEACTIVATE , something isnt right and something not right will end badly.
Hope this helps....
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Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?
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Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?
last question above
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Can the wot switch on the carb serve as the interrupt switch if set to where your foot has to press all the way down to activate n20 and if i let off the throttle a little between shifts will it disarm for a split second? and would this be ok turning off and back on maybe more than once?
Yea, that type of a setup will work that way. A lot of guys have done it that way
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I have nothing constructive to add but I have had a ton of fun with the squeeeze on various cars.
Like most who street raced out here in the San Fernando Valley we all had plate units by the late '70's. My first was a 125hp 10,000RPM (brand name) unit with black cloth braided lines.
I put it on my 390 Mustang with just a "T" in the fuel line and off to Terminal Island drag strip I drove. I made the first 12 second run that car ever ran on the first pass but the car would barely run on the return road. Pulled the plugs and the electrodes were burned off. Put some plugs in and drove home, nothing hurt.
Lesson learned, I drilled a hole in the stock fuel sending unit and JB Welded a 3/8" steel fuel line next to the stock fuel line. Added a blue Holley pump and plumbed a fuel line to the front for the nitrous system only. Regulated it to 10lbs. Then I "upgraded" to an ICE 125 plate unit. I never found a need to pull out timing with the small units once I had a dedicated fuel system. I didn't want to pull timing because if I had a "hoods up" (meaning nitrous unhooked) street race I'd have to retime.
I eventually bought a 200hp ICE unit and an MSD timing computer that I had hooked to the activation button on my shifter. Push the button, nitrous working and 6 degrees timing pulled out.
I don't believe I ever made a full pass with that system without some kind of drama.
Most notably, I took my Mustang to the Fun Ford Nationals at Carlsbad Raceway in San diego in 1987. I had the unit on the car but wasn't planning on using it. The car had a Hi Riser and 11.5x29.5 slicks. The car was dialed in the low 11's and running pretty good.
Unfortunately, I lit the red bulb in the first round. I decided that I'd hook up the squeeze and see if I could get a solid 10 second pass. They were having time only runs between rounds.
Staged the car and hit the unit right off the line. The car hooked hard and took off. It was running harder than ever and I was having fun. Once in high gear I was sure I was on a 10 second pass...then at a little past 3/4 track...boom...flames shot out of my Boss 429 hood scoop and wrapped around it. It was pretty cool but my run was over. I coasted to the return road and lifted the hood to check out the damage.
The boosters from my Holley were melted into my hood scoop.
Took the car home and pulled the heads. Nothing appeared damaged but the carb. I tried using my "big unit" a few more times but didn't care for it. The "small unit" always worked well for me.
Hope you have fun with your squeeze. I've won a number of "hoods down" street races when competitors lost traction when they hit their unit and I never even had to hit mine.
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I like a button AND wot switch as mentioned above, and yes, hold the button through shifts and just lift the throttle a little.
100 hp also brings a lot of torque. I don't remember what brand of long-style pressure plate I was using with my first kit, but 125hp hit would slip the clutch if the rpms were too low. It's a lot of fun to hit it in the mid-range on the street, but make sure the clutch is up to the extra work.
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100 hp also brings a lot of torque. I don't remember what brand of long-style pressure plate I was using with my first kit, but 125hp hit would slip the clutch if the rpms were too low. It's a lot of fun to hit it in the mid-range on the street, but make sure the clutch is up to the extra work.
[/quote]i got over a grand in my clutch system,it should hold 100 shot
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Make sure you have a spare shortblock.
Is that your way of saying " There are two kinds of nitrous users - Those who have blown up sh*t and those who will" ... lol
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I've never run the stuff but there is an old saying that "Using Nitrous is like going out with a girl who has a STD (sexually transmitted disease) You want to hit it but are afraid of the consequences" ;D ;)
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Make sure you have a spare shortblock.
not looking for s.a. comments like this.do you say the same thing to the big dogs shooting for 900-1000 hp? no,i have noticed you are polite to them. i may not be a big dog,im low buck,but i take my FEs seriously.i have been running them for 40+ years. i plan on staying small with the nitrous but i know what the possibility's are. thanks for the other replies.i will remember to check the plugs,they should look close to new after a pass is what i heard
It is easy to understand you are offended by the shortblock comment, but maybe....just maybe, you were getting good advice, even if you don't want to hear this advice.
The learning curve is pretty high when it comes to NO2. I have lost count at the number of blown engines at the drag strip, or on the street, by those who were CERTAIN they had all their ducks in a row, only to find out they did not.
There are signs to look for, and sounds to listen for, but it seems many want the set up to be right based more on what they have been told, rather than verifying it is right based on what their tune is telling them....and often comes the boom...at which point the extra shortblock is required.
Timing alterations under spray are critical...get them right and verify they are working properly.
Fuel management is critical under spray....get it right and verify.
When you are at the track attempting to make your run...pay effing attention and stop when it does not sound right.
We have all heard the new NO2 guy in the burnout box with the popping, sputtering, fire out the pipe engine that is screaming "No, it's not right yet, check a few things"
Followed by the starting line sputtering rev and loading of the converter.
Followed by the green light full throttle launch that lasts about 18" with the big underhood fire and subsequent BANG.....and now it is lunch time because the starting line needs to be cleaned and prepped again.
My favorite comment. And good advice
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its only a 100 shot.most people with negative comments are afraid to take chances.what about the dreaded flat tappet cam going flat at break in.or too much boost on a blower or turbo.im serious about every thing i do.anyone who knows me can tell you.im sure if something happens those same guys will say,i told you so.and maybe one or two might would wish it.i looked back at all the nitrous posts and the same people left simular comments on every post.some of these newly developed hi-po parts maybe should just be used on aftermarket blocks,too much bang for a stock block..wait,that sounds like a negitive comment,forget i said that.just a comparison.
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I had ran Nitrous on 3 different FEs, one with great results, one with so-so results, and cost me an engine, transmission, and almost, a car. The great was my numbers matching 69 R code automatic Mach 1, totally stock except for a Comp 268H cam, and F427 intake. Stock 735 carb, exhaust manifolds, torque convertor, single point ignition, 3.50 gears. "Off the bottle", the 69 ran a best of 13.38ET at 102mph, on 235/60R14 street radials, with a 100HP NOS Cheater plate setup, it ran 12.30s at 113 mph on the street tires, 11.92 on a pair of 81/2x26 MT slicks.
My 70 R code 4 speed Mach 1, a few years earlier, with a few bolts ons, ran a best of 12.52 at 111 MPH, on slicks with open headers, I then added the same NOS kit that I later put on the 69. Even with a McLeod 11 1/2" clutch and 4.30 gears, the 2.32 1rst gear would slip if I tried to launch it on the nitrous, so I ended up just using the nitrous in 3rd and 4th gear, which picked up 4 mph, but less than a tenth in the 1/4 mile. With the 69, I found that if I just ran the nitrous in 1rst and 2nd gear, it made much more improvement using the nitrous in the 1rst part of the run, than just using it for the 2nd 1/2.
The bad deal, was with my Fairmont, which in 1988 and 89, had a decent 390, with a C6. With no nitrous, the 390 ran a best on 11.42 at 117mph. I decided to take the NOS kit from my 69, and stick it on the Fairmont. With the 100HP jets, it was great, ran 10.50s at 126 MPH, launching at WOT with the nitrous on. However, like many bottle squeezers, I got hooked on the "easy" HP, so I switched to the 175HP jets. Another big improvement, went a best of 10.28 at 132 mph, until a few months later. I was at a race in Bremerton, and just before the finish line, there was a loud boom, flames out of the scoop, and I was sliding around in water at 130ish MPH. Luckily, I kept it off the guardrail, could have been a lot worse. When I took the engine apart, I found all the main webbing between the cam and main bearing bores was ripped out, the crank was in 5 sections. The rear section of crankshaft was flopping around enough that the flexplate teeth sliced a groove thru the C6s bellhousing, broke off the front pump stater support, snapped off the starter nose, and when the rear webbing broke, it tore open the rear water jackets, which is why I had the water under the slicks. When I built this engine a few years earlier, I installed brand new 427 LeMans rods, with SPS bolts, all of the rods were bent or twisted, but none broke.A few valves got bent, and one piston hit the head deck surface. That was over 30 years ago, and I have not touched the stuff since, nor do I ever plan to.
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I know some guys that have great success and some with little to no success. One guy I know his car is called champagne express like a 87 Grand Prix small block Chevy , I believe he’s running a 500 horse kit not all at once. I can find out but I think he leaves on a 250 then 2nd and 3rd are an additional 125 each. He’s running 8.20s pretty consistent. He just had a tranny go on him a turbo 350. He just put a turbo 400 in.
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its only a 100 shot.most people with negative comments are afraid to take chances.
Only a 100 shot..lol
My comment hardly means that I'm afraid of taking chances, but believe whatever you want. My comment was intending that if you use stuff like that, you should have spare parts. Since I like to race my R code, with an all factory iron 427, I have spare parts. Why? Because if you're going to race, you can't be surprised or upset if something goes wrong, so you better be willing to pay the price. If you're going to use nitrous, your chances just increased.
But....I guess I'm just afraid to use the stuff.
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just for the record,my garage is packed with fe stuff just like the rest of the lifelong FE lovers. i have owned this car for 40 years and this is the 4th fe i have put in it.not offended just dont care for negative comments when im trying to do something the right way.you made the same comment to all the members who brought up the subject.i dont see anyone telling Jay,Blair,Brent,etc.that they better have a spare mule ready for their testing.or members with radical over the top engines. its always,nice engine ,good job,etc.i bet if someone had a 1500-2000 hp nitrous FE with success,they would get a that a boy,instead of asking if he had a spare. since i dont thrash my car weekly at the track,if no bad luck a 10 pound bottle will last me at least 2 years.it will never be used for more than 4 or 5 seconds at a time at the most.just a few times a summer.im not turning into mr hyde and going wild with it.
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I have read through this thread several times.
I do not see any negative comments from anyone on this thread.
Many positive thoughtful comments.
We all love the FE platform.
Not everyone agrees - that doesn't make a comment "negative" or the responder an a smart-a__
Don't ask questions if you only want answers that you agree with.
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Oh boy this went south...So in the late 80s I found there was a ton more money in building race cars than there was racing them so thats what consumed my time while mine sat Dormant. I have one old friend from that era and he too was hooked on the sauce and still is today. I did a 7.50 cert SN95 for him in the early 2000s . The first car I did for him was an early Fox and if any of you have raced at the Beach in the way back you remember the wires coming out to the tree over head.. Well they yelled at him numerous times because they thought he was going to hit the wires when the old fox left on the back bumper (It kinda did look like it but was a long way from hitting it). Mike , is the guys name for reference... Well Mike did transmissions and was good at it ,very good . He is meticulous...Which is why I mention him.
Both of us have seen NUMEROUS N2O failures over the years in peoples cars .Nearly every single time it was either because they were stupid or they had some very suspect wiring or Fuel delivery or switches or all of the above (IE stupid). Ive seen a couple I guess that just didnt have the parts to handle the shot . I have seen too many to count that suffered broken transmissions , broken rears , broken welds on shoddy additions . Detonated Clutches and bell housings . the list goes on and on .
Neither Mike , Nor I , ever had such failures .We didnt because we knew what we had to do in order to use it and we respected that . I recall once when we ran the timing up on his Brothers car higher than we should have because we were trying to get the 302 in the 9s , we sacrificed a few electrodes and it was our fault that it happened . This was a little bit of nothing car that they had done the engine in and I had done the cage and chassis . Car ran in the 10.17 to 10.20 range all day long... Try that with an FE that you have literally no money to build WITHOUT N2O.
I said this at the onset of this thread. Most of the time if you have an engine that can handle the increase and you have a well setup system , the failure is going to be another thing in the car that was fine with lets say 450 HP and would run that way till the cows come home , but wasnt so fine with that shock of 1 ,2 ,3 , or 500 HP being thrown at it like right now.
This isnt the N2Os fault people . Parts all have a threshold of what they can deal with . Its no different without the bottle on the car. You have a engine that is pumping out lets say 300 hp and you get those Heads from Jay and a solid roller and a big ole carb and giant REF headers and take her for a pass and those rod bolts that WERE perfectly fine decide that this addition wasnt in their contract so they quit. Its exactly the same thing.
Properly installed and tuned N2O systems do not inherently burn engines down . Its simply not true.. And no , when you are talking Nitrous , 100HP is nothing . Yeah , it might be to those stock connecting rods that were borderline to begin with but again, Not anything that can be blamed on the N2O . You simply over powered the parts you have installed.
The statement about having a spare short block around can be applied to anyone thats going to beat on the cars. It damn sure can be applied to me . I have no mercy with or without the kit on it. If it cant do what I need it to do then it should throw parts out . I have no one to blame but me and knowing that about myself , yeah , I have more than one spare engine around.
I have a Fogger kit here that WILL be going on one of these that I am doing now with a controller... N2O simply cannot be beat dollar for dollar.... It cant be done..
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i was wanting to get my heads CNC worked and a solid roller but i didn't want to tear a almost new engine partially down and cost right now before Christmas. my receipt at the machine shop was over 3 feet long and the last thing the machinist said as i was going out the door was[boy,that would make a nice nitrous motor]i believe i will take my chances. so it will either take the extra hp or it wont
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Not everyone agrees - that doesn't make a comment "negative" or the responder an a smart-a__
Don't ask questions if you only want answers that you agree with.
i ask questions because i want to learn what i can,unless i get kicked off the forum i will continue to ask questions,some might be dumb.but i dont have to agree will all the answers.
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It's akin to going to the doctor needing a heart bypass and asking the doc how the operation is done, the expected results and possible complications, and the nurse says... make sure you have a spare heart.
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It's akin to going to the doctor needing a heart bypass and asking the doc how the operation is done, the expected results and possible complications, and the nurse says... make sure you have a spare heart.
Yes, it's exactly the same. ::)
Sorry if I got your panties in a twist. It reminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men....lol