FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: 475fetoploader on August 10, 2021, 10:22:46 AM
-
Ok started a new thread to keep things simple. Some folks mentioned a Jerico on the street is not for the faint of heart. Also that they are rude. So are we talking downshift difficulties? Noise? How about a road race version, or does that sacrifice strength? Truthfully my 295/65/15 e.t. Street tires offer a surprising amount of bite. This car is going to be noisy, the floor gets hot in the summer, it has manual steering so I’m not expecting a Cadillac.
-
Double clutching on the upshift makes mine smooth. I've tried RPM matching and it still wants to hit rather hard, at least harder than I like, and I've driven sticks all my life. Some guys say they can do it easily, so maybe it's something to do with my trans, or just my lack of skill. I find it just as easy to double clutch and there is zero issue with any engagement, at least on my trans.
To me, downshifting is the part that makes you pucker a little. Downshifting definitely requires you to RPM match the best you can, or it's going to bang pretty hard. If you look at the decel lug on a Jerico gear, it's very small, so you do not want to try and finesse it or it's going to eat away at that lug, which will cause issues with it staying in gear on deceleration. You want to get it into gear immediately.
It's also going to bang when you put it in first from a stop. That's pretty much the nature of them, I believe. I don't have a clutch issue that I'm aware of, and no matter how long I sit to let the gears idle, it'll still clunk pretty hard going into first.
Also, on the clutch assisted trans, there is a rather large gap between the accel and decel lugs (there is no decel lug on a clutchless, so if you get off the gas it will pop out of gear), so there is a lull in forces transferred when getting on or off the gas. It tends to make the car feel a bit jerky, but that's just the nature of that style engagement. The gap is there to allow the lugs to have space to engage at speed.
To take full advantage of the trans, you really need a Long shifter. That makes it a bit more work as you have to raise up the gate to downshift form 4th or 3rd, to any lower gear. I don't find it a problem, it's just something else that is in the equation. Obviously a Hurst style shifter doesn't have that issue.
In standard traffic, or rural areas like I live in, I don't find any of these things to be real objectionable. If you get in city or heavy traffic, you'll have your hands full. The very limited amount of heavy traffic that I'm likely to encounter is not an issue to me, but like I said, I have a lot more tolerance for these issues than the vast majority of people would want to endure. Just be honest with yourself about what you would find tiresome so that you don't regret your decision.
Final word, once you get on the track, you won't want to have a toploader again, at least while racing :)
-
Doug, I greatly appreciate that response. Exactly what I was looking for.
-
Great synopsis from Doug who has helped me a lot with perspective on Jerico street use.
I framed Jerico street usage as rude due to the clunking/pulling into first and gear bang when pushing/pulling gears without double clutching. None of that matters at the track but the first time you take one of your buddies for a ride on the street they are going to ask if the trans is broken. I could double clutch a face plated toploader fine but have not mastered the technique with my Jerico. At least with my unit I have to pull fourth very firmly or there will be grinding. Second and third are more civilized but there is a jolt upon engagement.
I guess a lot depends on how much street driving you will do with car and as Doug has mentioned, your tolerance level.
-
The primary use will be state route 162. Where I plan do donate the bulk of my Mickey Thompson’s. Track use will be a couple trips per year. There is a fair amount of traffic around here now. Stop and go wouldn’t be fun here in the summer with a power glide. I work nights a lot of the time, so I’ll have the advantage of cool air, and vacant roads.
-
Talked with Scott at Jerico this afternoon. He says add the road race sliders to a drag race 4 speed. Put a Long shifter on it, things will get a bit noisy but they won’t break. I may be looking to sell a top loader soon.
-
Scott is one of the most senior employees at Jerico and will provide only the most reliable advice. He will take time to explain "why" something you are requesting may not be the best way to proceed without interjecting any sales rhetoric. My experience has always been that you can accept his advice with the highest level of confidence.
-
I think between him and Doug’s post I have a direction. If you know how a snow ball works, here’s my build. Stroked 428 with stock edl. Heads, top loader, stock 9”, stock front end.
Currently 511” bbm. 35 spline moser rear end. Probably a Jerico. Roller/tubular front end rebuild.
I should probably start looking at paint colors. :-\
-
What kind of “jing” is Scott talking for that trans?
-
$5,200. Plus $1,200 for the Long shifter. Ouch.
-
If you know how a snow ball works, here’s my build. Stroked 428 with stock edl. Heads, top loader, stock 9”, stock front end.
Currently 511” bbm. 35 spline moser rear end. Probably a Jerico. Roller/tubular front end rebuild.
I should probably start looking at paint colors. :-\
I still don't know why it works that way. 5 years ago, I was going to swap a slightly larger cam and bump the compression with steel shims on a tired old 390. 4 years later, everything but the body and interior had been changed.
-
I think between him and Doug’s post I have a direction. If you know how a snow ball works, here’s my build. Stroked 428 with stock edl. Heads, top loader, stock 9”, stock front end.
Currently 511” bbm. 35 spline moser rear end. Probably a Jerico. Roller/tubular front end rebuild.
I should probably start looking at paint colors. :-\
Just another example of "Mission Creep". Believe me, it happens to every one of us who love cars!
-
Mission Creep. I like that. I’ll run it by the wife, see if she notices the genius in it.
-
Good luck with that 475fe toploader. Keep us informed about if your sleepin in the garage or not.
-
$5,200. Plus $1,200 for the Long shifter. Ouch.
So, how many built like new Toploaders can one buy for the $6,400 savings?
3? 2.5? 2?
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/toploaderpricelist.htm
-
Even if you could buy 3 new Toploaders, you would still have limited gear selection, and a heavier, weaker transmission. So if you were to buy 3 new Toploaders, and broke all of them, are you any further ahead? I also wonder how all the "new" offshore components in a new Toploader, compare for strength and quality, compared to OE Ford parts. Another option would be to buy a used Jerico or G Force. I ran Jericos for 20 years, with used transmissions that I paid $2000. a piece for, with Long V Gate shifters. And after 20 years, sold both for what I paid for them, when I switched to the G Force G101A 4 speed.
-
1200 for a Long shifter? Is that buying it through Jerico? Shifter with pistol grip was $700.00 two years ago through Long.
-
That’s through Jerico yes.
-
Interesting, I found Long v-gate shifters all over for $700. Possibly he misspoke. Seemed like a straight forward fella.
-
Has anyone used/ know of the Johnny Hightower 4 speed?
-
I think between him and Doug’s post I have a direction. If you know how a snow ball works, here’s my build. Stroked 428 with stock edl. Heads, top loader, stock 9”, stock front end.
Currently 511” bbm. 35 spline moser rear end. Probably a Jerico. Roller/tubular front end rebuild.
I should probably start looking at paint colors. :-\
Just another example of "Mission Creep". Believe me, it happens to every one of us who love cars!
Naaa, I've never had any problems with that.
Ya, right.
The wagon started at 13.0's with a base 428CJ and a toploader. Now it has a full boogie 496FE and a Liberty 5 spd on the edge of going 9.90's. So, ya, I don't have any issues with "going to extremes".................. :P
A Jerico will surely outlast a "stock" toploader power wise.... no matter how cheap you can buy toploaders(I remember getting them for $100 at swap meets in the 80's). Overall a toploader is very stout. The worse thing you can do is wheelhop it and shatter the input gears out of them. I have broken an output shaft on the street once a long time back. The thing is, even if you put in a 31 spline output shaft, the front half is still all the same and can break again just as easily.
-
I really enjoy the fact that there exists an F.E. wagon with a 5 speed. That’s great stuff.
-
Hey, treat those Toploaders like the 'bullets' the nitro racers do all the time. Break it, pull out another one and go! Hah!