Power level with iron heads

[Ean R]

Hi fellas,
I'm new to the site so forgive me if this is an old topic but I have a 427 side oiler with the $ crank and lemans rods etc.
The crank is beat up badly with gouges and lumps all over it so I'll buy a stroker crank for it. I'm pretty sure it's original bore size so my question is.
I have the C6AE-F heads with bigger Manley valves and a slight porting job.
Can I realistically get 650hp with a stroker, original block  and the iron heads with a victor intake etc.
I don't mind spending a bit more on the heads if it's worth it or should I just go alloy?
The motor has a factory sidewinder intake at the moment and I'll keep that if power level can be reached but also have no problem using aftermarket gear.

[Ean R]

Forgot to add I'm in Australia and will run the engine on 98 octane.

[blykins]

Lots of head work, lots of compression, and lots of cam could probably get you there.  The short answer is yes, it just depends on what you're willing to put up with, and how much money you have. 

[garyv]

If you are looking to make 650 HP I would suggest you go over to Survival motorsports site and look at Barry's forum.
He has a lot of different combos dyno'd there and this might give you an idea of what it takes to make 650HP with an FE.
Brent also has some on his site you can look at.
Like Brent said it probably can be done but you've got to have some really good heads to make that much HP.
Lot of FE combo's will make 575-600 HP but from what I see being done it takes someone that knows what they are doing
to get them in the 650 plus range
Easiest route probably is ported aftermarket heads, stroker set up and a solid roller cam and the most important part is lots of cash.
I'm sure others will chime in here.
good luck with you project
garyv

[bluef100fe]

650hp on pump gas with old iron heads won't be no easy target to hit in my opinion....  Stroker combo and 427 block are definetly going to make it easier to achieve your goal but there is going to have to be some compromises in my opinion to hit that level of power and still be able to live with it's manners on the street if that's what your going to do with it? Best wishes

[jayb]

Welcome to the site, Ean.  One of the dyno mules I tested in my book went 675 HP with the Victor intake and Dominator carb, and had the following parts:

427 sideoiler block
4.25" stroke crank kit
Edelbrock heads, ported to flow 343 cfm at .700" lift on the intake
11.3:1 compression ratio
Comp solid roller cam, intake was .700" lift, 304 duration, 266@.050", exhaust was .711" lift, 310 duration, 272@.050" lift

I think to get to 650 HP you should figure on a set of good aftermarket heads, maybe the Survival Motorsports heads or the BBM heads, that are ported to flow in the 320-340 range on the intake side.  Also figure on a good roller cam, probably a solid roller.  By the way, don't let the compression ratio scare you, with a big cam you can run quite a bit of compression (11:1, for example) and still be just fine on your 98 octane fuel.

Good luck on the project - Jay

[Ean R]

Thanks for the quick replies.
This is my first serious crack at a decent V8 and the motor is to go in a 66 fairlane. RRS front suspension and probably caltracs rear end with 3.89.
Manual shift C6 with 3000 stall.
Before I blew a head gasket or whatever caused 2 pots to fill with water the motor although tired really snarled and still had a fair bit of grunt. After pulling it apart the crank had big lumps missing and valves had banged 2 pistons. Still went hard though and possibly the best v8 sound I've ever heard. ( not many big blocks in aus let alone fe's).
So to get this thing running
Iron heads are out  and either BBM or Survival heads are the best option.
The cam in the engine is a Isky Revmaster 306. Can this be reused as the sound this thing made was nothing short of amazing?
Is this cam able to handle more cubes? I want this to snarl and poor street manners I'm willing to put up as long as it will haul when it has to.
Jay thanks for your input and I've got your book as well as Barry's, the 675 hp oiler in your book is bored out more than usual for a 427? Or can I push it more than 4.250?
Can't run a 4.375 crank in a oe block can you?
Thanks for helping a newbie out

[jayb]

The reason that the dyno mule's block was bored out quite a bit was because it needed it; when I got the block it was already .040" over, and the cylinders were a little scored.  I wouldn't recommend boring your block any more than absolutely necessary.

A 4.375" stroke crank is a great idea; should get you over 500 cubic inches, with a commensurate gain in HP and torque.  You can certainly run that in the factory block.

I'm not familiar with the Isky cam; is it a flat tappet or a roller?  You can certainly run it again, but if its a flat tappet it may be down on HP a little compared to a roller.  The bigger the motor is, the more it eats up the cam and wants to peak for horsepower at a lower RPM.  Post the cam specs so we can have a look...

[Faron]

CUBES , and Compression ,will Help you in Lots of ways , the gearing you have and the Converter will not be near enough in a 427 ( or close Combo ) that make close to the 650 your looking for , But with close to 500 that gets those parts in the usable ( street-able ) range again , its The TOTAL Combo that makes the Car Quick/ Fast , Food for Thought

[cjshaker]

Better have that block sonic checked first. Not all 427s are equal. Some have decent wall thickness, some are pretty thin in areas. With a big stroker crank with high compression and thin walls, you'll probably be splitting a wall sooner or later when the hammer falls. It would suck to put all that work and effort into it and have that happen. A partial block fill would certainly help in that area and may be something you'd want to consider.

And I'd have to agree, aftermarket heads, ported, would be the choice. It may be possible with iron heads, but not without some MAJOR work from a good professional who really knows FEs. You would have twice as much invested compared to a decent set of aftermarkets.

[ToddK]

Hi Ean, I'm running a set of Survival heads on my 406 stroke, 11.5 to 1 compression and a cam with intake duration of 250 at 0.050". It will tolerate BP 98ULP with total timing at 29 degrees. For best power, I mix in some 109 octane fuel and set timing to 33 degrees.

If you use the Survival or similar head with a modern chamber and aim for 11 to 1 compression with a decent cam, you should be okay on 98ULP.

[Ean R]

Appreciate the advice everyone and good to see everyone seems to have the same ideas/advice.

Basics are
Factory block sonic checked bored honed etc.
4.375 crank
4.250 or 4.263 bore
Victor intake port matched to cnc'd chamber alloy heads.
Dominator carb
Big roller cam
And about 11+ compression.
This is basically what seems to be the components needed to put together a nice big fe.
As I said this is my first decent V8 build and will take all advice given.
And the questions will grow  as it progresses so hope I don't annoy anyone with the basic stuff like what cam to use, how big of a carby  etc.
Jay the cam is a solid mechanical with Lx74 markings and 306 iskenderian revmaster stamped on the end. As for the technical stuff ? Quite happy to put this cam on the bench and buy a big roller if that's what's needed.
Todd, I think we may have spoken a while back when I blew the head gasket the first time. I've still got your number so may give you a call if ok.
I'll keep posting as the build gets underway
Thanks again for the advice and keep it coming.

[DEANs427]

Hi Ean,
you can spend a whole lot of money in a hurry on on a FE! If $$ are not a factor ,then go for it. If your looking for any economical options ,I have few.
 I am running the C5AE-F heads (old iron obsolete) you have, just be sure any aftermarket heads you consider exceed the obtainable flow of the heads you have. my flow sheet attached..
Do your homework on the cam timing and its effect on dynamic compression ratio, particularly on intake valve opening point.
Determine exactly what you want from the engine, drag race? is idle quality important? wow factor (multiple carbs versus single) longevity?(will engine run run 20k miles without rebuilding roller lifters)
I like to evaluate part choice on a cost per power ($/hp) scale.
you will find good solid advise here!
unable to post flow sheet: intake=306@500lift, ex=221@500lift

[Ean R]

Hi Dean,
The engine is going in a nice 66 fairlane , primarily to blast around on Sundays but will be driven probably most days. Longevity is of course a priority but if it lasts 40k miles with 600 odd hp and 60k with 500hp then I'd go for 600. Probably won't see a drag strip but if I get the power I'm after then I'll definitely take it to motorplex for a run. 
Dragging chevs and holdens ( Aussie chevys) off at the lights  and cracking every bird egg within 4 blocks when it's fired up is the main goal. It had a killer idle in its 427 form mechanical cam, hooker headers etc and it made even chev fans smile.
The fairlane is a beautiful car and turns heads but to be honest I bought the car for the side oiler and the car deserves to go as good as it looks.
I'm new to this and flow charts and cam specs are alien to me. One thing though if the iron heads flow 306 @500 lift can you get 700 lift and if so will they flow a higher figure? 

[ScotiaFE]

Me thinks your induction needs a relook.
For all out bling and 427 FE show stopper.
You need two Holley's.
A Med Riser or a Tunnel Wedge with a couple of good looking 4V`s will give you the real 427 look.
And it will make it easier to get to 650 HP.
And you can close the flat hood no problem.
The Victor with a domi and an aircleaner will need a Scoop hood for sure.