Author Topic: Slick tube valve stem question  (Read 2471 times)

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AlanCasida

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Slick tube valve stem question
« on: August 31, 2021, 09:33:46 AM »
I ordered some new M/T slicks and tubes for my car. I am running the old aluminum slot wheels for the vintage look. I noticed the valve stem on the tubes are offset quite a bit to go along with most modern wheels. The valve stem hole in my old slots are pretty much right in the center of the wheel. Is this going to cause a problem or am I over thinking things...as I like to do.   

gt350hr

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2021, 09:46:46 AM »
   Go tubeless , you'll be glad you did.

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2021, 09:52:49 AM »
   Go tubeless , you'll be glad you did.
I appreciate your input but that's not what I'm asking.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 10:21:46 AM by AlanCasida »

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2021, 10:20:10 AM »
I got ahold of M/T tech and they said it was not a good idea to run the tubes like that. They recommended drilling another hole in the wheel to match the tube and plugging the old hole or running tubeless.  I am going to wait until I get the tires and make sure they even fit with my slots before I make any rash decisions.

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2021, 11:54:55 AM »
While I don't have experience with tubes in slicks, I do have a lot of experience using them in the equipment at work. It'll cause problems trying to use a tube with a fairly significant offset from valve stem to the hole. It stretches the tube and puts a lot of strain in the rubber surrounding the stem, which will lead to failure in that area. I'd imagine doing the same on a slick that gets launched regularly would lead to failure in a faster time frame.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2021, 12:17:24 PM »
While I don't have experience with tubes in slicks, I do have a lot of experience using them in the equipment at work. It'll cause problems trying to use a tube with a fairly significant offset from valve stem to the hole. It stretches the tube and puts a lot of strain in the rubber surrounding the stem, which will lead to failure in that area. I'd imagine doing the same on a slick that gets launched regularly would lead to failure in a faster time frame.
Hey Doug. I saw where you are running the same M/T slicks that I ordered and you are running them without tubes. Do you feel any instability on the top end? When I went from my Hoosier stiff side wall slicks to my friend's M/Ts with tubes I could fell it wobble around a little...enough to notice I guess. I just wonder if it would be more without tubes. I like the looks but these slots are starting to become a pain.

mike7570

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2021, 12:26:41 PM »
If you are going to run tubes it's important to make sure the tire does not move on the rim. If the tire moves it will pull the tube with it and you run the risk of ripping the valve stem out of the tube.  I ran tubes back in the '80s in my super street car and switched to tubeless once it starting ripping valve stems off.  Rim screws can prevent movement but some guys don't like to drill through expensive wheels.

Falcon67

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2021, 01:57:18 PM »
I run slots on the car, noticed the same issue.  I have both old ETs and newer American.  I passed on tubes a long time ago.  When I ran slicks I'd make a few passes then flip the tires side for side.  Also note that most tubes need a pretty good sized hole for the stem - more so than a regular tire valve.  The Welds that were on the Mustang were drilled oversize to accommodate the tubes.

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2021, 07:15:32 PM »
Alan, when I tried 12 lbs in the tire, I definitely could feel rear movement on the top end. Enough that it made me feel uneasy, and I didn't like it. I went back to 15-16 lbs and that feeling went away. I've also tried 14 lbs and didn't feel anything, but it was a nice flat track, so I don't know if would be that way on an older or less optimal track. Between 12 and 15 though, there was a definite difference in sidewall flex at speed. Feeling the rear move side to side at 115+ did not set well with me.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Falcon67

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2021, 09:19:14 AM »
I don't run those speeds currently, but my Hoosier DRs will 60' the same on a fresh strip at 6 PM on a Friday TnT and at 10:30 PM after all the street cars and diesel trucks have made hay out of the starting line.  And no washing around on the top end.  16 lbs is my target pressure for this car.  Tires are same size as 28-10x15 slicks with little or no growth down track.  I'm at about 460 HP now, if I went to 650 HP tomorrow I'd not change the tires.

gt350hr

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2021, 09:45:58 AM »
   Go tubeless , you'll be glad you did.
I appreciate your input but that's not what I'm asking.  ;)

    OK , the stem orientation should match the wheel. You should run a "centered stem" on your wheels. Using an offset stem on a centered wheel hole will fail the tube or tear out the stem as noted on another  post on this thread.
   I have run stiff side wall and soft side walls. At 14psi , I don't get any "wandering " at 122 mph with either style. I did notice a difference in the "hit" of the initial launch with the stiffer sidewall. I run the 10x28 Goodyear (D6 compound) and 60' times are 1.48-1.51 typically. C4 and 5.29 gear.
  Randy

67xr7cat

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2021, 11:39:17 AM »
Keep in mind reason for inner tube is if the tire doesn't have a semi permable membrane the oxygen molecules can over time get thru the tire meaning the tire looses air pressure over time. If the tire has the membrane is no reason to run an inner tube. The tire mfg. can answer that. If it don't you can still run it without it just will have air it up after few weeks. You can also use the liquid tire sealer will do same job as a tube. Used have a farm tractor kept getting punctured tubes went to the sealer worked great.

Rory428

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2021, 02:41:45 PM »
I stopped running tubes in my slicks about 30 years ago, my Fairmont goes 132 MPH in the 1/4 mile, with 10 PSI, no tubes, and no wandering in high gear. Now, if you have radial street tires up front, possibly that could be an issue, maybe. Also, you want to have the rim width closely match the tire width for stability. I went away from tubes because I found over time, the tubes would squirm around inside the tire and throw the balance, causing a high gear vibration. So after so many passes, I would have to take the wheels off the car, let all the air out, and shake the tires to allow the tubes to "flow out" equally again. And true slick tubes are natural rubber, which are heavy, as well as pricey. The weight of those heavy tubes can also negate the benefit of using lightweight wheels well. And if you get a puncture, a tubeless tire will generally go down slowly, but with a tube, will go flat much faster. Plus you need to screw the wheels to the tire beads, otherwise, even a minor amount of the wheel rotating in the tire, will rip the valve stem out. Although M/T says that you should run tubes in most of their slicks, very few people do anymore. Yes, you will likely loose air pressure thru the sidewalls over time, on my Fairmont, which usually runs 10 psi, if it sits in the garage 2 or 3 weeks, they may loose a few psi, not a big deal to me.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2021, 06:32:44 AM »
I stopped running tubes in my slicks about 30 years ago, my Fairmont goes 132 MPH in the 1/4 mile, with 10 PSI...

Only 10 PSI, and no wandering? That makes me wonder why mine does. I still have the stock rear leaf hangers, so that may be what's causing mine to wander? I was going to use a set of reinforced hangers when I made some changes, so maybe that will cure it. The shocks are set evenly.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Falcon67

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2021, 10:26:09 AM »
Keep in mind reason for inner tube is if the tire doesn't have a semi permable membrane the oxygen molecules can over time get thru the tire meaning the tire looses air pressure over time. If the tire has the membrane is no reason to run an inner tube. The tire mfg. can answer that. If it don't you can still run it without it just will have air it up after few weeks. You can also use the liquid tire sealer will do same job as a tube. Used have a farm tractor kept getting punctured tubes went to the sealer worked great.

LOL with slicks - I would usually get 60~100 passes or so on no tube slicks, 12~13 psi, 1.58 60' on the car and the tires be close next time I unlosed the car.  Somewhere north of 60 runs one tire is gonna start losing air between races.  The dragster - old 393C - would 60' around 1.21, 7.5 lbs in a 31x14-15 and the left tire goes flat between races 2 weeks apart.  I load them up to 10 lbs before loading the car.  Right side will go down to about 9 or so over those 14 days.  Left will be about 5.  I have not bothered to do the Dawn dish soap trick where you wipe the inside all over with Dawn which is supposed to reduce the air loss over time.

gt350hr

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2021, 11:08:28 AM »
     When I was concerned about leakage , I would  wipe down the inside with Dawn dish soap . Not to the point where it would run but the idea was to clog any minor porosity without damaging the rubber. It certainly reduced the seepage and most of the time eliminated it. It might just be a "lucky" set of tires that didn't leak even without the treatment ( being realistic).
  Randy

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2021, 02:29:55 PM »
Got my new "sleeks" today. You can really see the difference between the regular sidewall M/T and the stiff sidewall Hoosier. I hope they will hook up better. I don't really like sowing up for RMRW 2.0 with new slicks but it is what it is.

Rory428

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2021, 04:53:35 PM »
I stopped running tubes in my slicks about 30 years ago, my Fairmont goes 132 MPH in the 1/4 mile, with 10 PSI...

Only 10 PSI, and no wandering? That makes me wonder why mine does. I still have the stock rear leaf hangers, so that may be what's causing mine to wander? I was going to use a set of reinforced hangers when I made some changes, so maybe that will cure it. The shocks are set evenly.
Doug, keep in mind, I am running 13" wide slicks, on 14" wide rims, the narrower the wheel/tire combo, the more air you need.Also, what are you using for front tires? I am running either Moroso or M&H "skinnies", which are bias ply, at usually 5 to 40 psi.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2021, 06:35:26 PM »
I stopped running tubes in my slicks about 30 years ago, my Fairmont goes 132 MPH in the 1/4 mile, with 10 PSI...

Only 10 PSI, and no wandering? That makes me wonder why mine does. I still have the stock rear leaf hangers, so that may be what's causing mine to wander? I was going to use a set of reinforced hangers when I made some changes, so maybe that will cure it. The shocks are set evenly.
Doug, keep in mind, I am running 13" wide slicks, on 14" wide rims, the narrower the wheel/tire combo, the more air you need.Also, what are you using for front tires? I am running either Moroso or M&H "skinnies", which are bias ply, at usually 5 to 40 psi.

I'm running the bias ply MT skinnies on 4" rims. Your rear tire width on even wider rims probably helps in how stable yours are. Mine are on 2" narrower rims because they didn't come any wider, and I wanted those rims. I know that's not good for sidewall flex.

I'm kind of shocked at Alan's pictures of the sidewall flex. I was under the impression the MT's were stiff, for stick cars, but I've noticed how much mine collapse on launch, then rebound. I may need to rethink my tires and whole rear set-up as I still have launch issues. Being Alan is running an automatic, they may actually help him.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2021, 06:39:18 PM »
I'm sure I'm not the only one who's done the "Dawn" trick on old slipping automatic transmissions. A tiny amount will soften up the seals and make them shift better....for a period of time. It never "Dawned" on me (see what I did there  ::)) to try it in one of my tires that seeps.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2021, 08:13:26 PM »






I'm kind of shocked at Alan's pictures of the sidewall flex. I was under the impression the MT's were stiff, for stick cars, but I've noticed how much mine collapse on launch, then rebound. I may need to rethink my tires and whole rear set-up as I still have launch issues. Being Alan is running an automatic, they may actually help him.
[/quote]
M/T makes a stiff sidewall slick in this same size (28x10.5) but it is still not as stiff as the Hoosier.

cjshaker

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2021, 10:54:19 AM »

M/T makes a stiff sidewall slick in this same size (28x10.5) but it is still not as stiff as the Hoosier.

That's what I used, so they probably don't flex as much as your picture shows, and I don't recall mine flexing that much when they were dismounted.

Sorry to sidetrack your thread, Alan.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Slick tube valve stem question
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2021, 07:05:43 PM »
Well I got my slicks mounted and I decided to go tubeless but I think I am going to go ahead and use bead screws. I wiped the inner sidewalls down with Dawn and I also put High-Tack on the bead to make it stickier.   

Thanks for all the input, guys. I REALLY appreciate it!  ;D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 07:21:30 PM by AlanCasida »