What heads to use

[Ratbird]

I have at least 2 bad exhaust valves so I'm going to replace the old rebuilt c4ae-g heads with some Edelbrocks. Sucks, because the motor has only about 1000 miles on it.

The guys on www.Squarebirds.org helped me troubleshoot it. I looked up how to hollow out a spark plug and did just that. Used my rubber tip on the air compressor and held it tightly in the plug tool while it was in place of the spark plug. Made sure the valves were seated and sure enough, the exhaust valves are not working on the number 8 and 4 cylinders. I can hear the air blowing right out the exhaust.   

The only good part is that I can do the work myself. When I first pulled the donor motor out of a 67 LTD I pulled the heads on it to replace a blown head gasket - I just wanted something to run until I had my motor professionally built. I used my 59 Ford Thunderbird shop manual and some other resources to do all the work and it came out pretty good for a guy that's never taken apart a motor. Heck, with all the room I have in this engine bay I won't even have to pull the motor. The FPA headers can come off with the heads and go back on with the new ones. Be a lot easier than pulling the motor, etc.

OK, so here are the specifics.
It was completely rebuilt about 1000 miles ago. It's a 390 with a 428 crank, bored 30 over - makes it a 416. 10.5 to 1 compression. Has a Edelbrock RPM Performer intake. A Edelbrock 750 carb. Lunati's version of the 428 CJ cam. FPA headers. A 428 oil pump, comp springs, stainless steel valves, moly rings. A wide ratio 4 speed toploader, 4.00 Detroit locker rearend.

I'm guessing these: http://streetperformanceusa.com/i-9592962-edelbrock-performer-rpm-fe-cylinder-head-chamber-size-72cc.html?gclid=CJOV24Wrh8ACFQQSMwodeD8Aug

Has anyone ever bought from these guys?

thx in advance, Dave J

[My427stang]

Barry isn't too far off that price on complete Edelbrocks, you may want to talk to him.  That way you know you are getting the right springs, etc.

Don't forget you will need head bolts and should get studs for the rockers, that will add a couple hundred bucks.

On paper they will increase compression from where you are, but in reality, Edels are usually bigger than they say, so my guess is it will be fine

[Ratbird]

Thx My427stang.
Those are things that I wouldn't have known. I would have thought I could use the same fasteners. they're almost brand new. At least as long as I keep track of where each one goes? What are "studs for the rockers"? I thought they would just bolt on.

Right now the engine is guesstimated at 390 HP and approximately 450 torque. Any idea if these heads will up that?

I'll PM Barry soon and see what he has in the way of advice and hardware to use. Anytime I can send business the way of the forum members I'll be doing it. It's the least I can do for all the free and expert advise I get from you gents.

Dave J

[My427stang]

I am pretty sure the bolt heads are too big with the stock head bolts, if you already have ARP with a smaller head, they should be fine

As far as the rocker studs, the oiling bolt hole is a different length on the Edelbrock head and general rule most of us use is to switch to studs which is a little easier on the inserts.  Doug Garifo sells them cheaper than Edelbrock, not sure what Barry gets for them

As far as power?  Depends how good your old heads were, but with a few bad valves it should make quite a difference LOL 

In terms of overall airflow, the Edelbrocks should give you maybe 25 hp?  It'll be dramatic because you currently have bad heads, but with your cam and heavy car I wouldn't expect it to be a huge difference compared to a good stock early head

Ross

[Barry_R]

You can often get the Edelbrocks to install with stock head bolts but it will not always work and its a real pain in the #$%^&.  The ARP head bolts have a reduced hex head size that makes it a breeze.  Money well spent going that route.

As Ross noted - the Edelbrocks have a different thread/hole depth for rocker mounting and they will sometimes bottom out with stock mounting bolts.  When that happens you push a hole through the top of an intake port or pull out the thread inserts.  This has been known to cause excessive alcohol consumption and really bad language.  But it is fixable.  Much easier to use the available stud kit...

Not sure who that vendor you referenced is.  They are located in California, but the notes say the heads are shipped from Michigan - so they are purchasing from Motor State distributing.  Same place that supplies a big portion of the industry.

[Lenz]

I installed 60069's on my 445, and will add a plus 1 on all the above.  The springs are single and good to .600" lift, I'd think they would work well with a factory pattern cam.  These are for flat tappet hydraulic lifter applications only, but I noted that a spring change would allow you to go over to a roller if you so choose, one of the reasons I went with the tamer 60069's for now.

I'm one of those guys who decided to use the stock head bolts.  Getting a good purchase on two end inboard bolts required me to "clearance" my socket.  Lots of assembly lube and tripling down on the torque made it successful.  If I had to do it again I'd buy the stud kit without even thinking about it, as Barry said a royal pain in the hindquarters . 

I definitely needed the rocker shaft kit, at least in my case I could see where the factory bolts flat out would not work without risking breakout.  If you have factory tins for oil control they will likely need some trimming, had to cut mine up a bit to fit.  I reused them figuring some was better than none.

[Ratbird]

Awesome useful information gentlemen, thanks a ton! I will definitely heed your advice when I get it apart and confirm everything I need. The build it had said it used ARP fasteners, so there's a chance I have the correct head bolts already. I'll know more when I get it apart.

thx again!

[fe66comet]

I used ARP studs but six point  heads on the outside bolts. As stated the head had to be cleaned up a little to clear. I think just two were an issue. On the inside the bolts were supplied with my rockers so no big deal.

[Ratbird]

Got it apart and it would appear I had some valve float. The end exhaust valve on #8 is askew slightly. The top of that piston has a small ding in the eyebrow. Here are some pictures.

Now I'm worried about my valve to piston clearance. I sent a PM to Barry for recommendations on what to use in my set up. I'm guessing he'll suggest some heavy springs. The ones used in the rebuild were "comp springs". I also wish I knew how high I had rev'd the motor when I missed a power shift that started all this. It was at least 6000rpm cuz that's what I saw when I peaked at it.
According to the builder it should rev up to 6000rpm no problem. I'm sure I exceeded that.

If you're out there Mr. Robotnick please check my PM when you get a chance. I know you are super busy so let me know if I should just call your number the web site to talk with one of your people.

regards, dAve J

[Ratbird]

ONe more try

[Barry_R]

Out setting up/displaying/enjoying the Woodward Dream Cruise this weekend.
Just got back tonight
I'll try to check the PM and respond in the AM...

[Ratbird]

A couple more quick questions if you guys don't mind.
LenZ spoke of trimming the factory oil distribution tins - does anyone have any pictures, or a link to pictures of the trimming that they need?

I was also wondering about a rev limiter. I have zero experience with them, but I have the Pertronix points replacement, I believe it's the Ignitor two. Do I have to use the Pertronix rev limiter, or would you recommend another brand? I figure it might be a good idea with my crazy timing chain shifter - it's a long throw and I'm sure I'll miss third again once in a while. ;~)

thx, Dave J

[fe66comet]

I like the MSD 6A Digital box, it has an adjustable rev limiter and capacitive discharge. The main benefit is no fuel loading at low rpm and multi sparks per power stroke. Ultimately you get better mileage and HP is the bottom line.

[Lenz]

Dave,

On trimming the tins I just laid them up on the heads and used a pair of snips to remove the material necessary from the drain back "spouts" so that they'd lay flat on the rocker shaft head bosses.  I also had to shorten the backbone portion to clear my HS rockers, don't know if you'll need to do anything there.  If you are using factory style rockers that portion should be fine, but check it anyway.

I don't have any pics but once you get to it hands on fit and clearances will become evident, just cut 'em to clear.

I know ignition ain't cheap, but I'll add +1 to Jon's comment, I do like my MSD 6AL
Len

[machoneman]

There is a shiny spot on the piston pic. I wonder if the valves hit the eyebrow due to valve float. The MSD 6A would work as mentioned and it's an easy install to get a rev limiter.