pre-oiling questions

[pbf777]

The rockers are bushed.  I honed them until they rotated freely.

     This ideally is where the oil leakage rate should be controlled!  And if you were given the rockers with bushings being undersized (GREAT!  ) this allowing the opportunity to limit the otherwise generally experienced 'excessive' clearances between the shaft and rockers then restrictors wouldn't be necessary, particularly for a "street" engine. 

     We've built many FE road-course type engines; and in particularly the "F.I.A." legal types, these requiring "stock-type" rocker-arms, and in the past we would utilize the Crane Cams "Ductile Iron" adjustable units (N.A  ) which I have bored, pressed and sized (properly  ) bronze bushings for a clearance of .0005" or less (we have run .0003"), this vs. the as otherwise commonly received .0015" (and that would be rare to encounter  ) to .003" (these still being considered "GOOD"!  ), and don't ask about "used" stuff  ; and in these instances an .080" restrictor only acts as an oil loss control safety feature, if a rocker arm or the shaft breaks, but the shaft 'is' pressurized and there is no "excessive" leakage (as some 'is' required!  ) and there isn't starvation of some and certainly reduces instances of burnt pushrod adjusters & cups!      

     But, I'm not saying that "restrictors" aren't a good idea and even necessary in some instances and you really don't want to "flood" the under-valve-cover area, but I think they are excessively relied upon as a crutch; and if your already pumping the oil (it's a "positive-displacement" pump and also excessive bypassing within the pump creates other issues  ) then you might as well utilize it! 

     Scott.

[My427stang]

I’ll do it. Restrictors will go in. The ones I have measure 0.084”.  The rockers are bushed. From Precision Oil Pump. I honed them until they rotated freely.

I’ll post the results but it’ll likely be a few days before I get to it.

Brent already gave you good stuff, but I'll add, get that 30w out of there if it is single weight oil.  WAY too thick for your clearances and drainback.  10w30 or 10w40 VR1, Gibbs, or Penngrade, and I would lean toward 10w30 with .002 mains, if hot idle oil pressure looks low after break in, you can try 10w40.  Restrict the rockers, .084 is OK and with the thinner oil will drain back easy but I generally go less, closer to .072. 

[Boiler Ben]

Dumping this fresh oil will be painful for me but I guess I could do it. My plan was to dump it after a dyno test. I can find Valvoline VR1 in either 10W-30 or 20W-50. I don’t see that they make 10W-40.

Also, for some reason, the 10W-30 has less zinc and phosphorus than the 20W-50. Any guidance on minimum amounts?  Is the 1100 ppm zinc and 1000 ppm phosphorus good enough?

[blykins]

Dumping this fresh oil will be painful for me but I guess I could do it. My plan was to dump it after a dyno test. I can find Valvoline VR1 in either 10W-30 or 20W-50. I don’t see that they make 10W-40.

Also, for some reason, the 10W-30 has less zinc and phosphorus than the 20W-50. Any guidance on minimum amounts?  Is the 1100 ppm zinc and 1000 ppm phosphorus good enough?

If this is a hydraulic roller, some of the lifters won't tolerate a thicker viscosity.  Valvoline VR1 10W30 is perfectly fine. 

[Boiler Ben]

10-4. I mean 10-30.

Anything additional for switching the oil?  I’ll get out as much as I can. Can I drain the filter and reuse that?

[blykins]

Sure

[Rory428]

If you have a roller cam, you really don`t need the extra ZDDP additives. That said, the Brad Penn/Penngrade 1 oils do have higher levels of ZDDP than most "regular" of the shelf oils. And my 428 has a solid flat tappet cam, and I run 10/30 Penngrade1 oil, and it has plenty of oil pressure. When cold, it is 80-90 psi at 1500 RPM, and even hot, it has 65-70 psi at cruising speeds, 1500 RPM or higher, and even after a 2 hour summer freeway trip, never goes below 30 psi at hot idle. And my main and rod bearing clearances are similar, .002-.0025.

[mike7570]

Dumping this fresh oil will be painful for me but I guess I could do it. My plan was to dump it after a dyno test. I can find Valvoline VR1 in either 10W-30 or 20W-50. I don’t see that they make 10W-40.

Also, for some reason, the 10W-30 has less zinc and phosphorus than the 20W-50. Any guidance on minimum amounts?  Is the 1100 ppm zinc and 1000 ppm phosphorus good enough?

Fresh oil, recycle into your other car, lawn mower etc.
Did you use new pop shafts with rockers? Not sure why you would need to hone them. The last set I had fit fine out of the box.
I use 10-30 VR1 in my stocker engine with a little looser clearances, oil restrictors to the heads and I have the same pressures as Rory.
Mike

[My427stang]

Dumping this fresh oil will be painful for me but I guess I could do it. My plan was to dump it after a dyno test. I can find Valvoline VR1 in either 10W-30 or 20W-50. I don’t see that they make 10W-40.

Also, for some reason, the 10W-30 has less zinc and phosphorus than the 20W-50. Any guidance on minimum amounts?  Is the 1100 ppm zinc and 1000 ppm phosphorus good enough?

I think you got this loud and clear but if it's a roller motor, you really do not have any choice.  Find something else for it.  It's absolutely the wrong oil and zinc doesn't matter much.  If it's a flat tappet, you could run the 30W but realize that thick goop may not want to get back to the pan readily or may even blow a filter. (assuming it is straight 30W).  Brent can chime in when one of mine popped a filter, didn't hurt anything but there are probably still oil stains all over the dyno cell

[MeanGene]

On my break in stand I just use a magnetic heater on the oil pan, thins the oil out to the way it is when the engine is warm. Leave it on until the pan is warm, and when you light it off, you have normal flow instead of syrup. I also have a coolant heater that I am going to install in the lower radiator hose

[Boiler Ben]

Ok, I installed restrictors and replaced my straight SAE 30 oil with VR1 10W-30.  The oil pressure is the same 95 psi I had before so maybe those two changes cancelled each other out from a pressure perspective.  I verified oil in each lifter and each rocker was at least wet on both the pushrod and valve tip sides.  But there was significantly more flow on the passenger side. And on the last three rockers (7 & , there was very little flow.  The valve tips were wet but the spring retainers were dry instead of like the others where oil flowed down the springs.

Should I rotate the engine?  Should I inspect those dryer rockers?

[Barry_R]

I do exactly as you have done - restrictors are a judgement call at preoiling.  Some definitely need it - some don't.  If you follow the tortuous path that FE rockers get oiling through, you'll understand why they can be so variable.  From cam groove to bearing to block, through passages and then alongside a head bolt and and alongside a rocker fastener to the stand, and then up into the shaft.  I have seen some where the machining/assembly tolerance stack up causes the head bolt to block oil.  I have seen the same thing at the cylinder head/rocker fastener and at the rocker fastener to the shaft itself.  You simply need to check and address the problem - if there is one.  Sometimes all you need to do is loosen the rocker assembly and give it a plastic mallet tap at one side or the other to make a significant change.

That 95 psi does seem high - I normally see 70-80 on the drill.  How were the bearing clearances measured?  I'd still probably just let 'er rip with that number cold.

[pbf777]

  But there was significantly more flow on the passenger side. And on the last three rockers (7 & , there was very little flow.  The valve tips were wet but the spring retainers were dry instead of like the others where oil flowed down the springs.

     I assuming the engine is sill on the engine stand (?), so I'd probably start by just removing the rocker shaft assemblies, remove the oil restrictors (if located iin the head below the stand, and with a "speed-handle", hand crank the oil pump so as to witness the oil sums from each side in comparison.   

     And yes, rotate the engine one revolution re-test, rotate and retest again, and again; Remember what was stated previously:  This observation, for a number of reasons, may very well not present oil distribution in the same fashion as that as with the engine actually operating.   

     If the oil sums exiting the heads seem consistent left and right, swap rocker-shaft positions and see what happens, does the problem follow the shafts?   

     Scott.

[My427stang]

I would say one other thing.

Look close and see if your oil pressure gauge shows a wiggle at max pressure from the relief working.  Most of us have a larger dial master gauge we use, and it will show, but it is possible you could have a stuck relief.  If not maybe your clearances are tighter than you think.

The one I mentioned earlier that popped a filter had normal-ish oil pressure with a speed handle (I don't use a drill) but after we found the issue you could see it on the gauge when the relief flexed, I look for it every time now, with a big gauge it's very easy to see.

As Barry said, it's a series of passages that finally get to the rockers, it can be imperfect out there.  Paralysis by analysis can happen, if you have oil at every valve tip and rocker, you are likely good.

[Boiler Ben]

Thank you for all of the advice. I have some things to try and I’ll let you guys know what I find.