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Messages - pbf777

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31
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: August 05, 2025, 11:18:55 AM »
And now for something completely different!

    Oh no!  Don't look!  You'll just suffer from nightmares, if you try to follow along with the logic of this engineering and the explanation for it's acceptance!   :o

    But, leave it to the "Promotional Dept". to try and make everyone want one!   ::)

    Yep, you said it: 

  Strange!!


    Scott.

32
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: August 04, 2025, 06:30:39 PM »
     "Bed Plate" engineering actually derived from antique stationary engines before they became transportable (this long before the automobile was invented  ::) ) and they were huge monstrosities where a 10" bore would not have been considered large at all, and they were built-up in place starting with the foundation or "bed-plate" where the crankshaft was laid and then everything else was of pieces & parts assembled over it.   :)

      More recently, this engineering is still known in large stationary engines and the large marine diesel and steam engines.  See: https://marineprogress.com/marine-engine-bed-plate/

      Scott.

33
FE Technical Forum / Re: Valve seat reconditioning
« on: August 04, 2025, 12:28:49 PM »
       I always applaud an individuals' efforts to be self sufficient, I think there needs to be a lot more of this in our society today, but, unless you already have or this is just a first purchase in the direction of accumulating a "Machine Shop", just contract a competent one to do the work.   ;)

       Now, if you don't already have a machine shop for which this purchase would only prove an accessory implement for, if your just determined, and particularly if this is just for seat "touch-up" work then I'd suggest considering "stones"!  Their not popular any more, as they take an exorbitant amount of time, greater effort and knowhow with technique to achieve a proper result, that as compared to more modern equipment available; but "kits" also can be purchased used at auctions for a pittance. And with some familiarity and effort a fine result 'can' be had.   :)

       We still sometimes utilize stones, that for "touch-up" and "dressing", this on both heads where they really haven't 'used-up' the previously done seat work and even sometimes on new machine cut surfaces to lay down the surface.  And then periodically an oddity comes in the shop that we don't have a applicable cutter for, so often for this out comes the stones. 

       They ain't all new fangled like some of the newer (more expensive) stuff, but you know, for quite a number of decades they were/have been what has cut probably more seats than anything else.   8)

       Scott.

       P.S.  Oh yeah, the guides need to be "good" first!   ::)

34
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: August 04, 2025, 11:44:08 AM »
        Non-skirted blocks lend themselves better to "bed-plate" conversions; and there have been a few made for the Small & Big Block Chevies over the years and even for the Small Block Ford.

        Unfortunately most "conversion" executions aren't able to provide to the level that an original intention execution can, as most often the location and fastening to the block pan rails of the converted blocks tends to suffer.  One also would want to utilize like materials (can't say for sure if the FE photo is of aluminum?) and avoid those long fasteners as presented in the FE conversion, as these begin to act with excessive elasticity vs. a shorter fastener; again part of the problem with conversion efforts.   :)

        Scott.

       

35
FE Technical Forum / Re: Question for the Tunnel Wedge intake experts?
« on: August 01, 2025, 11:52:39 AM »
     The "ultimate Flow" capacity, yes; power, driveability as a whole, maybe maybe not.  And the ideal execution, resulting in the best effect of that which one intends to address is going to differ, this due to the surrounding componentry and environmental conditions.   ???

     For example, I wouldn't say that the use of  "a 1 inch 4 hole merge type spacer" is always going to be "better" either!   :-\

     Nope! Not the answer you were looking for, but the honest one.   :)

     Scott.

36
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 30, 2025, 06:41:13 PM »
I am talking solid dowels, and being captured no way to fall in the pan.

     The concern wasn't the issue of the dowels actually being in the pan, as that in itself really isn't likely to be a problem; rather it's the fact that this provides evidence that the pins are being pushed and shaken, in motion to the point that they migrate out of position, and in the instances provided literally dropping out and therefore even if retained longitudinally are not capable of providing accurate location of the cap or significant support to the block in service.   :)

     Scott.

37
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 30, 2025, 11:51:57 AM »
    +1   ;D

     That reminds me:  Back several decades ago Jim Dove was heavily into "roundy-round" racing with the FE; and he had been utilizing those 4.05" bore cross-bolt bossed blocks for cap conversions, but then was having to sleeve them down to 4". He had heard that we had some 352 blocks with the bosses but he had never seen such, so he came down to our shop just to see if this was true.  In our discussions, where we had drawn the same conclusions, he explained that it had proven that trying to utilize the non bossed blocks "didn't work" (perhaps "as well" ::) ) and therefor was searching high and low for these 352's with the cross-bolt bosses and would pay a premium price (which he did! 8) ) for them.   :)

     Scott.

38
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 30, 2025, 11:48:14 AM »
In the end I think a pinned cap has more benefit than a cross bolt in most cases based on where it helps ground the cap

     Now there are solid "pinned" and then there are hollow "Doweled" locating mechanisms and I'm not sure which you might be contemplating?   :-\

     But just for thought: Of the "pinned" type, utilizing say a solid ground steel pin of something less than 3/8", such as utilized in the 385 series blocks, and 5/16" in the BOSS 302, these engine examples with 4-bolt mains, in extreme applications they just loosen up and often are found just laying in the bottom of the oil pan!   :o  And then the problem with the "hollow dowels" is that it is impossible for one of "seamed & rolled" material makeup to be round and as for the "solid-round & ground" type it's still a challenge for them to be "perfectly" round, so in either case flexibility is the solution for reasonable fitment possibilities and still both generally act on limited surface areas.   :)

     Scott.

     
     

39
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 30, 2025, 11:16:35 AM »
That example is a test of a vector that doesn’t happen unless the machining was bad.


     The idea wasn't an effort to demonstrate that the skirts move excessively during bolt-up (particularly with poor workmanship), rather a simple effort to display the functional rigidity of that which is being anchored to. And the plane of motion is absolutely relevant in the attempt to hold the main cap squarely as the thrust forces and resultant movement attempted to being dampened are left to right, this attempting to spread this pan rail distance and resulting in splitting the block through the main saddles.   :)

     Scott.

40
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 30, 2025, 10:42:37 AM »
I also don't think that the walls of the block are too thin to support the crossbolts needed for those caps. 

     If only for the sake of observation, utilizing a "proper" cross-bolt block, after torquing the 1/2" main bolts, leave the side spacers out for now and hand thread the cross-bolts in for the center main, place a dial indicator so as to measure movement of the block skirts left and right relative to one another at the pan rail level and utilizing a dial meter torque wrench just start snugging up the 3/8" cross-bolts and watch the dial indicator vs. the torque meter value.    :o

     It can't be better with the originally non-cross-bolt intention blocks in a conversion; and with such I have witnessed cracking of the skirt about the bolt area after being put into service too!

     But good steel replacement main caps, properly fitted, are definitely an improvement, particularly on the 2-bolt blocks, but also aid in the cross-bolt applications.    ;)

     Scott.

41
FE Technical Forum / Re: Summit branded distributor
« on: July 29, 2025, 11:23:20 AM »
     Just realize that it's a "knock-off" aka. "rip-off" product and one shouldn't be promoting this, no matter how "cheap" it might be!   >:(

     Remember: "You only get what you pay for!"   ;)

     Scott.

42
FE Technical Forum / Re: cross bolt conversion cost
« on: July 29, 2025, 11:17:30 AM »
. . . . . after inspecting the block he was afraid the sidewalls were too thin and would weaken the block instead of strengthening it.


    Yes, the only blocks that I really think one might be improving upon are those castings which exhibit the internal skirting boss providing for the bolt pass-thru and spacer seating.   :)

    Scott.

43
        If after a thorough degreasing and abrasive/shot blasting, the block is one which just still has lots of rust crap in water-jackets, flakes of rust falling out every time one rolls the block over, then we just surrender to the process of filling the water-jackets up with muriatic/hydrochloric acid and let it fizzle for a while, flush with water and inspect.  Another treatment may be deemed necessary, but if not, or just when you've concluded this endeavor, then treat with some baking soda slurry to neutralize and flush again with lots of water.   

        This of course is when working with a bare block, and disassembly may prove to be necessary if the block has a lot of trash accumulation.    :)

        Scott.

     

       

44
FE Technical Forum / Re: Clutch suggestions please
« on: July 09, 2025, 01:25:10 PM »
       And then sometimes, they've been known to remove themselves!    :o

       Scott.

45
FE Technical Forum / Re: Clutch suggestions please
« on: July 08, 2025, 12:08:45 PM »
       One has to give credit to C.F. in creating an increased interest in clutches; which for the most part previously were just something that someone bought like brake pads, solely because they needed it, and generally made their selection based on simple recommendations by another, . . . .  "cause it was what they were using".    :-\

       Beginning back in the earlier '80's, presumably after the "Non-Compete Clause" lapsed after Hays Clutches had been folded into the Mr. Gasket Group, C.F. popped up with a greater some of effort in promotion, colorful shipping boxes, that 'bright' orange painted P.P. hat, and for goodness sake, don't forget the 'jingly little weights', all of which provided tangible identifiers that this product 'must be better' than the others, at least at first glance!  Never before had the subject of clutches become such a fashionable consideration!   ::)

       Scott.

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