Author Topic: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"  (Read 4021 times)

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plovett

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Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« on: April 15, 2021, 01:53:31 PM »
The Mustang thread on weight savings got my neurons sparking, well at least smoldering.  I didn't want to hijack so......

I have a '67 Cougar.  Been running a 428 FE.  It's in the middle of a new engine build.   Not much for me to do now except brainstorm (brain drizzle?).

My car, though never been weighed, is pretty light.  It's an original 6.5 Litre car with C6.   I removed the power steering, power brakes, carpet, sound deadening, headliner, radio, console, and rear seat.   It has aluminum heads, intake, and water pump.  I removed the headlight doors and all the associated hardware.  No coolant catch can.  No window washer.   I keep the trunk close to empty most of the time.  Just a bottle jack and 14" aluminum wheel/spare tire.  I have light Weld Racing wheels at all 4 corners, 15x8 on back and 15x6 up front. 

The exhaust is headers with steel pipes dumping in front of the axle.  Still has a factory replacement brass radiator.  I have heavy 6 leaf springs.  I have factory front discs and factory rear drums.  It has subframe connectors welded in.

What would be my best bet for losing more weight?   Composite leaf springs?  Brakes?

How about fiberglass fenders and hood?   http://www.usbody.com/Pages_Cars/67-Cougar.htm  Anybody know about how much the fiberglass will save?

thanks

paul



« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 01:55:15 PM by plovett »

Joey120373

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2021, 02:18:43 PM »
They are not cheap, but the smaller ones are at least within reason, try a lithium or life-po4 battery.
I have them in my motorcycle and 4 wheeler ( of course those are much smaller batteries ) .
They weigh a lot less and, at least in my toys, pay for themselves because they last so much longer.

And on that same thread, a small, lightweight alternator and starter?

winr1

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2021, 07:31:16 PM »
Fiberglass hood on my 65 F100 would save around 50 lbs ..cant remember what a mustang hood weighs

The 65 hood also went up from 500 to 700 !!



Ricky.

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2021, 07:42:19 PM »

The 65 hood also went up from 500 to 700 !!

Ricky.

What is that referring to?

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 07:45:20 PM »
They are not cheap, but the smaller ones are at least within reason, try a lithium or life-po4 battery.
I have them in my motorcycle and 4 wheeler ( of course those are much smaller batteries ) .
They weigh a lot less and, at least in my toys, pay for themselves because they last so much longer.

And on that same thread, a small, lightweight alternator and starter?

A light battery is a good idea.  I do have mine over my passenger side rear wheel though, so the weight is doing some good, there.

I have an old Tilton mini starter.   

I hadn't thought of a light weight alternator.   Any idea what a good one would be and about how much it weighs?

thanks,

paul

winr1

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 07:50:16 PM »
Sorry ..... talked to a Lady at US Body ..fiberglass hood for my 65 F100 was $500.00 last year

1 year to deliver, $300.00 to ship

IIRC, she said they make them and not stock them


There website shows $700.00 now

Cougar/Mustang stuff may be in stock as probably move quicker



Ricky.



plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 07:58:12 PM »
Sorry ..... talked to a Lady at US Body ..fiberglass hood for my 65 F100 was $500.00 last year

1 year to deliver, $300.00 to ship

IIRC, she said they make them and not stock them


There website shows $700.00 now

Cougar/Mustang stuff may be in stock as probably move quicker

Ricky.

Ah,  I see now.   Yes, the shipping on big fiberglass parts is a killer.

Thanks,

paulie

gregaba

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2021, 08:04:28 PM »
lexan windows. Remove all window lift mechanisms,heater box, replace stock seats with shell buckets,outside mirrows unless required.
Radio if you can live with out one.
Just a few quick thoughts.
Greg

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2021, 08:14:19 PM »
lexan windows. Remove all window lift mechanisms,heater box, replace stock seats with shell buckets,outside mirrows unless required.
Radio if you can live with out one.
Just a few quick thoughts.
Greg

The radio is already gone.   I have light plastic bucket seats to put in.   

I like the idea of lexan side windows with a strap to pull them up and down.   

Thanks,

paulie

Joey120373

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 09:08:26 PM »
It’s been brought up, but there’s a guy on YouTube, does a lot of mopar stuff, uncle (Tony, Greg? Guss?)
Built up a slant 6 and put it in a small car that he basically Swiss cheesed. Stripped the interior, shaved weight off the motor, kept the light weight and “ week “ trans and rear end.
Got the car down to 2100 pounds or so.
All of it “ on the cheep “ . Really neat car, the video where he fires up the slant 6 is worth watching just to hear the engine. I’ve never heard an old school slant 6 sound like that.

The holes he drilled basically everywhere but the cabin, neat to see, hood hinges, control arms.
Think that car would be a riot to drive, and it’s a slant 6.

As far as alternators, on the cheep, a hitachi or such small import. Been out of the mechanic-ing game for too long, but I think, IIRC, older Honda’s ( civics?) had a nice little alt. Brushes and regulator could be swapped out on the car, popped right off the back. There are aftermarket companies that advertise mini ~ 40 amp alts that weigh like 12 pound or so? On an older car with not much electronics that should be plenty.

How about plastic headlights? The kind used to adapt from a sealed beam to an H11 type bulb, probly a few pounds there easy and a nice upgrade.

allrightmike

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2021, 10:59:38 AM »
   Since brass & copper weigh about 1 1/2 times that of steel. I would think an aluminum radiator would be a good deal lighter. And right off the front wheels.

Cobrajet2

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2021, 02:53:51 PM »
Calvert mono leaf springs in the back would save some weight.  Cut the death out of the front coil spring covers in the fenderwell so they are just a skeleton.  Ditch the sway bar, or the skinniest one available if you are going straight line.  Aluminum radiator, as mentioned. I'm guessing the heater is already gone.

Mike
"That guy has got a pocket full of money and a watch full of time!"   Hubert Platt.


plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2021, 03:18:24 PM »
Calvert mono leaf springs in the back would save some weight.  Cut the death out of the front coil spring covers in the fenderwell so they are just a skeleton.  Ditch the sway bar, or the skinniest one available if you are going straight line.  Aluminum radiator, as mentioned. I'm guessing the heater is already gone.

Mike

Sway bar is gone.  I forgot to mention that.  I still have the heater as I drive it in Kansas winters.  I think I will add the aluminum radiator.  I'm going to look at the coil spring covers now.

Thanks for the ideas!   Keep 'em coming please.

paul

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2021, 03:20:37 PM »
Oh yeah, I removed the sun visors too.   ;D

gregaba

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2021, 03:46:38 PM »
Dump the door panels, they weigh a lot. Drill 1 inch holes in the metal [all over the metal] under the panels and then cover with the thinnest piece of alunimun you can find.
Ditch the headliner and any other trim you can. You will be amazed at what it weighs with the carpet.
Get rid of the inner fender wells-you won't need them. If you are not driving in the rain which is hard to do get rid of windshield wipers and mechanism.
Get rid of the grill they weigh a lot and are not required.
Greg

cammerfe

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2021, 05:20:49 PM »
My '72 Pinto weighed 2260 with 1140 on the back tires. This was after I put in a full 2X3 frame and 8-point cage, and chopped the top 4 inches. I used an all iron 466 SCJ (built the engine to run limited late model at Toledo Speedway. They required an iron intake manifold. Used a C6, and a 9" rear out of a Lincoln Versailles. Used Transverse fiberglas springs and Koni shocks. 'Glas doors, front clip and rear quarters.

I think the same car with an all aluminum engine would go at less than 2000 pounds.

KS

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2021, 05:58:34 PM »
My '72 Pinto weighed 2260 with 1140 on the back tires. This was after I put in a full 2X3 frame and 8-point cage, and chopped the top 4 inches. I used an all iron 466 SCJ (built the engine to run limited late model at Toledo Speedway. They required an iron intake manifold. Used a C6, and a 9" rear out of a Lincoln Versailles. Used Transverse fiberglas springs and Koni shocks. 'Glas doors, front clip and rear quarters.

I think the same car with an all aluminum engine would go at less than 2000 pounds.

KS

Please tell me you have a pic!   I'd punch a nun in the face for a ride in a big block Pinto!   

paul

Gaugster

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 09:52:46 PM »
Some form of fiberglass front/rear bumpers if anything is available?

I did a bit of searching for composite leaf springs for the Cougar. No luck just yet since they are longer than the Mustang ones. Let me know if you find a source or solution. Perhaps the shorter leaf springs could be made to work with some slider shackles etc...
John - '68 Cougar XR7 390 FE (X-Code) 6R80 AUTO

Joey120373

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2021, 10:00:20 PM »
I was also looking into the composite springs, seems like a good idea, forget the cost though.
The standard steel springs I am also looking into cost around $500. They have a sort of built in traction bar, a couple extra half leafs just in the front. Supposedly they work really well.
But they claim the composite ones virtually eliminate wheel hop, and are quite a bit lighter.

cammerfe

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2021, 10:46:38 PM »
My '72 Pinto weighed 2260 with 1140 on the back tires. This was after I put in a full 2X3 frame and 8-point cage, and chopped the top 4 inches. I used an all iron 466 SCJ (built the engine to run limited late model at Toledo Speedway. They required an iron intake manifold. Used a C6, and a 9" rear out of a Lincoln Versailles. Used Transverse fiberglas springs and Koni shocks. 'Glas doors, front clip and rear quarters.

I think the same car with an all aluminum engine would go at less than 2000 pounds.

KS

Please tell me you have a pic!   I'd punch a nun in the face for a ride in a big block Pinto!   

paul
I was Tech-Editor-At-Large for Super Ford Magazine at the time and it was all pictured in the Magazine. I wrote a dozen or more articles as I was building it, but lost my string book and all copies of the magazine during a move some years ago. I keep telling myself that a dedicated search on the internet might enable me to find copies but I've never done it.

KS

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2021, 05:04:45 AM »
I was also looking into the composite springs, seems like a good idea, forget the cost though.
The standard steel springs I am also looking into cost around $500. They have a sort of built in traction bar, a couple extra half leafs just in the front. Supposedly they work really well.
But they claim the composite ones virtually eliminate wheel hop, and are quite a bit lighter.

Not composite, but Calvert does make mono leaf springs.   That has to save a lot.  On the wrong side of the car, though.

https://calvertracing.com/product-categories/springs

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2021, 06:03:37 AM »
My '72 Pinto weighed 2260 with 1140 on the back tires. This was after I put in a full 2X3 frame and 8-point cage, and chopped the top 4 inches. I used an all iron 466 SCJ (built the engine to run limited late model at Toledo Speedway. They required an iron intake manifold. Used a C6, and a 9" rear out of a Lincoln Versailles. Used Transverse fiberglas springs and Koni shocks. 'Glas doors, front clip and rear quarters.

I think the same car with an all aluminum engine would go at less than 2000 pounds.

KS

Please tell me you have a pic!   I'd punch a nun in the face for a ride in a big block Pinto!   

paul
I was Tech-Editor-At-Large for Super Ford Magazine at the time and it was all pictured in the Magazine. I wrote a dozen or more articles as I was building it, but lost my string book and all copies of the magazine during a move some years ago. I keep telling myself that a dedicated search on the internet might enable me to find copies but I've never done it.

KS

Some of these mention a Project Pinto in the table of contents.

https://jimsmegamagazines.com/magazines-auto-super-ford/c-21-83.html

Dumpling

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2021, 07:52:31 AM »
Put a lift bag in the rear seat area and pump it full of helium.

How much weight personally could you stand to lose? Driver wears a speedo?

Narrow tires. Fabricated gauge-holding aluminum dash - replacing the original.

Chop the top. Plastic fuel cell replacing the steel tank.

KMcCullah

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2021, 08:46:14 AM »
What's your budget, Paulie? What are your end goals for the car? For a bracket car, best bang for the buck is in lightening up rotating parts and unsprung weight. How about a carbon fiber drive shaft? A Wilwood kit up front would help. Heck, why not a straight front axle why were at it? Replacing the flat glass pieces with Lexan would help. The door windows could be done like the T-bolts ditching the crank and regulators. Fiberglass body panels, not sure what's available. There's a bunch to be had inside a C6 too.
Kevin McCullah


Dumpling

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2021, 09:27:44 AM »
What's your budget, Paulie? What are your end goals for the car?....There's a bunch to be had inside a C6 too.

I believe Mark Williams? offers an aluminum 9" housing.

allrightmike

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2021, 11:55:18 AM »
Pete Robinson used to wear nothing under his fire suit except underwear, and light weight shoes also!

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2021, 12:26:22 PM »
What's your budget, Paulie? What are your end goals for the car? For a bracket car, best bang for the buck is in lightening up rotating parts and unsprung weight. How about a carbon fiber drive shaft? A Wilwood kit up front would help. Heck, why not a straight front axle why were at it? Replacing the flat glass pieces with Lexan would help. The door windows could be done like the T-bolts ditching the crank and regulators. Fiberglass body panels, not sure what's available. There's a bunch to be had inside a C6 too.

There is no budget.   Like most guys I just buy things as I go along.   I try to make sensible purchases, though.   I guess none of what we do really makes "sense" anyway.  If it did we'd just run turbo'd LS's or ultimately just buy an electric car.    That'd be faster and simpler and more economical.

Still, I do have an idea of what I want so your point is well taken.   End goal is to have fun.   I do intend to run 10's in street trim at some point.  A 10.99 would be fine.   I want my car to look fairly stock on the outside.  I even run '65 Galaxie hubcaps on my Weld wheels sometimes (They're pretty light).  The Cougar is stripped and pretty brutal for most people under 50.

The C6 is rollerized and full manual.  Still a good C4 would likely gain me a tenth or maybe 15 hundredths. 

I hate straight axles.   Sorry gasser guys.  Whatever weight is saved is negated by the horrendous aerodynamics, if you go over 100 anyway.  Plus all the other issues like wacky handling and poor visibility.   

I am thinking I will concentrate on the front half of the car.  I would love to find a fiberglass (front) bumper.   Fiberglass fenders and hood would be great, but I don't know if they are cost effective, for the weight loss. I also would like to do the lexan side windows and remove the window guts.   An aluminum radiator sounds good too, as I can improve cooling at the same time as reducing weight.   Also, the front brakes sound like a good idea to save a considerable amount of weight up front while improving stopping power.   I'll also put my plastic bucket seats in and not put in my roll bar. 

So in order I think I will do:
1) Look for a fiberglass bumper
2) Aluminum radiator
3) Thin lexan side windows with strap to raise and lower.
4) lightweight front disc brakes.

Question:  Does anybody know if '67 Mustang side (coupe) windows and '67 Cougar side windows are the same?   I think they are, but I am not sure.  That would make getting the lexan easier.

Thanks for all the ideas!

paul

« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:13:56 PM by plovett »

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2021, 12:50:42 PM »
I just emailed US Body Source asking about fiberglass bumpers.  They list hoods and fenders on their site, but not bumpers.  Maybe they can make one for me?

Anybody know if Fiberglass Trends is still around?

paul

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plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2021, 08:52:06 PM »

cjshaker

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2021, 10:04:12 PM »
I'll also put my plastic bucket seats in and not put in my roll bar. 


You won't be doing any racing then, at least under 11.50.
Doug Smith


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KMcCullah

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2021, 11:33:57 PM »
I was just being a smart ass about the straight front axle, Paulie. Been watching SEGA races on YouTube lately. Lol For 1/8mi racing the straight front axle works well. A few of the A/G guys are ripping off a 1.3sec 60'.

Can't remember if you mentioned 90/10 shocks. But you probably have some. Good bang for the buck.

The lightned sun shell driver and aluminum direct drum in our hot rod C6 was good for almost a tenth. Spendy pieces though.
Kevin McCullah


plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2021, 05:44:53 AM »
I'll also put my plastic bucket seats in and not put in my roll bar. 


You won't be doing any racing then, at least under 11.50.

I am well aware, Doug.  Our local strip got closed down by home owners many years ago.  The strip was built out in the middle of nowhere, in 1970 I think.  Houses kept getting built closer and closer and people started complaining about noise......

Maybe I'll change my mind someday.   Topeka is not far away.   

paul

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2021, 05:54:18 AM »
I was just being a smart ass about the straight front axle, Paulie. Been watching SEGA races on YouTube lately. Lol For 1/8mi racing the straight front axle works well. A few of the A/G guys are ripping off a 1.3sec 60'.

Can't remember if you mentioned 90/10 shocks. But you probably have some. Good bang for the buck.

The lightned sun shell driver and aluminum direct drum in our hot rod C6 was good for almost a tenth. Spendy pieces though.

I thought so.  Looking at the sky (with the front wheels on the ground) and trying to go straight would scare the crap out of me!  It seems to me that driving a gasser would be like taking off in a tail dragger WWII fighter.   You'd have to keep looking to the sides for reference points.  LOL!

I actually don't have 90/10 shocks.   Just worn out regular old ones.   My suspension is a weak point for sure.  Only running 1.9's on street surfaces with DOT cheater slicks.   I think I should be able to get into the 1.6's with some work?

I will look at the C6 parts you mentioned.  Thanks.

plovett

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Re: Weight savings part deux: "Feline Diet"
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2021, 03:57:26 PM »
I'll also put my plastic bucket seats in and not put in my roll bar. 


You won't be doing any racing then, at least under 11.50.

I am well aware, Doug.  Our local strip got closed down by home owners many years ago.  The strip was built out in the middle of nowhere, in 1970 I think.  Houses kept getting built closer and closer and people started complaining about noise......

Maybe I'll change my mind someday.   Topeka is not far away.   

paul

I didn't realize this was in the works.   Hopefully....

https://i70motorsportspark.com/

I'm still not putting in my cage.   :P