Drag Springs

[Nightmist66]

Any drag racers with a Fairlane, Comet, Ranchero, Mustang, etc. What are you using for front coil springs? I need to get another set of shocks for the front and am debating on swapping a set of springs while I'm at it. I currently have stock replacement big block springs trimmed a little for ride height. Would a small block spring be better? Are the Moroso just re-boxed 6 cyl/small block type springs? Probably a dumb question, but TIA...

[cjshaker]

When I started racing, after a lot of research on what guys use, I ended up just using small block springs. They tend to naturally lower the car a bit from the extra weight (just perfect, in my opinion, on my car), and give good rise when launching. They'll both be "floaty" on the road, so you'll want to back them up with good shocks, preferably adjustable if you want to street drive and race it. That is unless you like the roller coaster feel..lol

From what I gathered, the Moroso springs were basically the same as small block springs, as far as spring rate goes. But most of the guys that I found that had ran them said it made their car sit tall because they were so long. Not sure if anything has changed with them, but that's the info that I came across.

Edit: Jared, I know you've seen my car stationary, but it's been a while, so I added a picture to show how the stance is. I originally had 14" wheels on the front with the big block springs that I originally had in it, but I switched out to 15's for a couple reasons. The 14's just sat too low with the small block springs, so I wanted to gain back a bit of clearance, plus I just like the bigger front tire look on a race car (not that my car is a race car). Coupled with the 1" lowered rear CalTrac split monoleafs, it has a slight rake, but nothing drastic.

[fryedaddy]

i trimmed my springs years ago and it made my front end too stiff.i put torino sb coils in it and its a lot springier than it was,but im no pro drag racer,just occasionally i race at the track,but i street race as often as i can.

[manofmerc]

On my 67 comet with 460 power I use the small block springs .Why? because that is what I had these are a little different .I had a 69 torino wagon with 351 Windsor ,I planed to scrap the car so I removed the springs for this comet which is a drag car .It sits fine and has good weight transfer .Over 20 years ago summit had some cheap adj. drag car shocks that is what I use for shocks .I have cal tracs and their rancho shocks on the back .I don't know if these 351 torino wagon springs are any different than a small block (302) if they are it probably isn't much .I to have read that those moroso springs are long so it must be so .I would imagine you might have to trim them to get an ideal ride height .Good luck with your spring hunt .Doug

[jayb]

I used small block springs on my Mach1.  Don't buy the ones for an A/C car, they are heavier.  Also, make sure you have at least 5" suspension travel from rest, before the front wheels come off the ground.  The shocks can sometimes be an issue there...

[gregaba]

I changed the ones in the 71 Ranchero over to Aldan Coilovers in the front with the Caltracs and mono leafs in the rear.
So far so good.
Greg

[John67427]

This is never an easy thing to do. Just my experience from going from iron block to all aluminum engine. Had original big block springs and when I switched engines the weight difference looked like I didn’t have an engine in the car. I had a friend that ran a Drag Fairlane and used Moroso springs but car sat to high. I remember him cutting them and after about 6 months it sat too low.
  I actually weighed the car front end and went to the Moog catalogue to try and figure what to purchase. Still was a toss up but I went with 289 car with A/C. Installed the springs thinking it would be lower- WRONG. I knew it needed time to settle so for two solid weeks I would bounce the front of the car as long as I could physically do it as long as I could do it. It did come down but I still wasn’t happy with front height. Ended up with 1/2 coil cut off. I have to agree with Jay about A/C springs I should have used similar spring close to rating without A/C and may not have had to cut

[machoneman]

If you do cut the springs, a little can go a long way! No easy formula but 1/2 coil, install, bounce, turn the wheel back and forth a  few times and roll the car front to back....then check your ride height. Pain in the butt but cutting too much and you're screwed.

[Falcon67]

In both the Falcon and the Mustang, I used Moroso Tricks #47160.  Thats with an all iron 351C sitting between the towers.  242 in/lbs, uncut.  You cut a spring and the rate goes up along with a change in frequency, so don't cut a spring unless you really, really need to.  And don't use a torch.  I've race the Falcon so many years that it's on it's 2nd set.  I run CE 3 way front shocks, set loose - the "90/10" setting.  Leaves good. 

[6667fan]

Jared, make it easy on yourself and just swap the shocks. If you don’t get the chassis rotation you need you change the springs next.

[BattlestarGalactic]

I run Moroso trick springs, and they work well.   Lots of front end travel controlled by good adjustable shocks will greatly help in getting a car to hook up.

I originally cut my Moroso springs(pt # 47190) to get the car as low as possible and get as much travel as possible.  I removed one full turn(max they suggest).  This past winter I replaced them with uncut version to raise the car about 1- 1.5".   They list them by weight so weigh your car and do the same.

A good adjustable shock will also aid in controlling the rise/fall.

 

[Nightmist66]

When I started racing, after a lot of research on what guys use, I ended up just using small block springs. They tend to naturally lower the car a bit from the extra weight (just perfect, in my opinion, on my car), and give good rise when launching. They'll both be "floaty" on the road, so you'll want to back them up with good shocks, preferably adjustable if you want to street drive and race it. That is unless you like the roller coaster feel..lol

Yes, it has been a little while now and my memory is a little foggy, so thank you for the picture. I also have the -1" split mono springs on mine. The stance is similar to yours. I like it. I was debating a set of the Calvert 90/10's. I could probably live with the floatiness. I have driven the car around on the street a little bit with the slicks at 15psi, and that can be exciting at times given the fine roads here in Illinois. 

[Nightmist66]

I used small block springs on my Mach1.  Don't buy the ones for an A/C car, they are heavier.  Also, make sure you have at least 5" suspension travel from rest, before the front wheels come off the ground.  The shocks can sometimes be an issue there...

Thanks, Jay. I was looking at the specs of the springs for the coil dia. and rate and could see that the A/C ones were a little stiffer. The travel is fine. I made some flat upper shock mounts, so the shocks have more extension.

[Nightmist66]

This is never an easy thing to do. Just my experience from going from iron block to all aluminum engine. Had original big block springs and when I switched engines the weight difference looked like I didn’t have a engine in the car. I had a friend that ran a Drag Fairlane and used Moroso springs but car sat to high. I remember him cutting them and after about 6 months it sat too low.
  I actually weighed the car front end and went to the Moog catalogue to try and figure what to purchase. Still was a toss up but I went with 289 car with A/C. Installed the springs thinking it would be lower- WRONG. I know it needed time to settle so for two solid weeks I would bounce the front of the car as long as I could physically do it as long as I could do it. It did come down but I still wasn’t happy with front height. Ended up with 1/2 coil cut off. I have to agree with Jay about A/C springs I should have used similar spring close to rating without A/C and may not have had to cut

I had read where people said the Moroso will sag over time. Thanks for confirming the non A/C spring being the way to go. I was starting to assume that just glancing at the specs between the two. Your car looks nice!

If you do cut the springs, a little can go a long way! No easy formula but 1/2 coil, install, bounce, turn the wheel back and forth a  few times and roll the car front to back....then check your ride height. Pain in the butt but cutting too much and you're screwed.

I had cut the coils probably 6-7 years ago at least now, but I wanted to be as careful as possible, so I went a 1/4 coil at a time. I ended up taking 3/4 of a coil off.

[Nightmist66]

Jared, make it easy on yourself and just swap the shocks. If you don’t get the chassis rotation you need you change the springs next.

I never do anything the easy way. Why make 1 change when you can make 10 changes at once and figure out what helped or didn't? Seems logical to me. BTW, which springs are you running?

In both the Falcon and the Mustang, I used Moroso Tricks #47160.  Thats with an all iron 351C sitting between the towers.  242 in/lbs, uncut.  You cut a spring and the rate goes up along with a change in frequency, so don't cut a spring unless you really, really need to.  And don't use a torch.  I've race the Falcon so many years that it's on it's 2nd set.  I run CE 3 way front shocks, set loose - the "90/10" setting.  Leaves good. 

I cut mine a while back for looks and yes, they did get stiffer. I knew they would, but it is still a pretty decent ride on the street considering. I used a cut off wheel to cut. I know the torch is a no no. Thanks for the feedback on the Moroso's.

I run Moroso trick springs, and they work well.   Lots of front end travel controlled by good adjustable shocks will greatly help in getting a car to hook up.

I originally cut my Moroso springs(pt # 47190) to get the car as low as possible and get as much travel as possible.  I removed one full turn(max they suggest).  This past winter I replaced them with uncut version to raise the car about 1- 1.5".   They list them by weight so weigh your car and do the same.

A good adjustable shock will also aid in controlling the rise/fall.

Thanks for the reply, Larry. Seems like some of you have had good luck with the Moroso. I am debating pulling the trigger on the QA1 single adjustable or the double adjustable Viking for the front. I think the double adjustable would be way overkill for my scenario. Maybe I will be fine with the Calvert? I know a guy who runs a spring and fender shop, so maybe I will see what he can find for me.

[Nightmist66]

Thanks for all the replies so far, I appreciate it. I knew I could get some good feedback here.

[6667fan]

Jared, I have the stock big block AC springs, ( just cause that is what was in there). The pitch rotation on my car is decent, (still room for improvement). Shocks are Calvert 90/10s. No roller perches or aftermarket A-arm bushings. Depending on what else is going on with your car a shock change first and then a trip to the track might be telling. JMHO

[Nightmist66]

Sounds like your setup is working fairly well, JB. More food for thought on leaving the current springs alone. Did you get your new parts installed?

[427John]

My experience is with the 70-71 Torino,but I ran the stock 351 coils when I swapped in the 460 in conjunction with 90/10 shocks but what seemed to make the most difference was removing the front sway bar,while it worked great for trips down the track, if you drive much on the street I wouldn't recommend it.

[Nightmist66]

Thanks, John. I ditched the sway bar some time ago. I just take it easy on turns.

[Falcon67]

I had read where people said the Moroso will sag over time. Thanks for confirming the non A/C spring being the way to go. I was starting to assume that just glancing at the specs between the two. Your car looks nice!

When you pull the fronts off the track a little every pass, fully extend the shocks and such, you're  going to wear out parts.  When I updated the springs, they had around 2000+ racing rounds on them.  Most people don't run that much.  The Falcon has easy over 4000 passes since it hit the track back around 2003.  When we moved in 201, I threw out 4 shoe boxes crammed with ET slips. I beat on that car like it's a bad dog. 

[6667fan]

Jared, parts installation is ongoing. Towards that end I went to the driveshaft shop that I use to build another tube for the car. A Jerico I bought came with a Mark Williams input yoke that takes a 1350 u-joint so going to have a complete 1350 accommodating shaft. Of course I will have to replace the pinion yoke.
As always, doing my part to stimulate the economy!

[Cobrajet2]

I take it you have already ditched the factory upper shock mount for a flat plate? That will get you a little more front end travel.

Mike

[Nightmist66]

As always, doing my part to stimulate the economy!

I hear ya! 

I take it you have already ditched the factory upper shock mount for a flat plate?

Yessir.

[FordEver]

I had Moroso 47160 no cuts with roller spring mount CalTrac 90-10, upper control arm limiter.
Spring bend out some as the roller did not resist.
It was too bouncy, hit the stop, dropped down+up a few times. inconsistent. Ride height about stock with 28" front runner.
Put Moog 8236 small block/6 cylinder with 1/2 coil cut, poly bushing  spring mount, CT 90-10 same height, spring not bent out.
Seems to lift/launch same with no bouncing, 60 ft more consistent.
Moog 8236 uncut  was one coil shorter than 47160, same diameter coil. Big block old spring bigger coil diameter but shorter.
Added one shock rubber bushing under the mount to move the shock down prevent over extending.
If you want to try the 47160 or roller mount let me know, Bob.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jTxmXuZR4L96trACngK91qslq3_0ftDx/view
https://www.moroso.com/pub/media/pdf/TrickSprings.pdf

[Nightmist66]

Thanks, Bob.

I have been eyeballing the Moog 8236 springs for a little while now. Glad to hear that's what worked for you. I have been looking all over, but no one seems to have any. I knew you mentioned briefly last year which springs were on your car, but I forgot. I do already have the roller perches and I rollerized the upper arms as well. I made some adjustable strut rods with heims and the tubular lower control arms have a heim joint. I should be pretty much set except for the springs and shocks. Well, actually the new Calvert 90-10s showed up yesterday so now it's down to the springs. I'll keep an eye out for for the Moogs. Thanks for your offer. I appreciate it.

[FordEver]

Googled it, prices/availability all over the place this place usually has stuff
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/moog,8236,coil+spring,7512.
Recommend not cutting first , we put them in my sons stoch 289-4spd car, too high. Sometimes Moog stuff is too tall, and does not settle. Might be just right for your setup first try.
For comparison ,I have 8236 1/2 coil cut sits about stock/level with 28" front,  29" rear slick. Mine weights 3150 no driver, Glass fenders, bumpers ,hood, decklid, alum heads, intake, radiator, lexan windshield, plastic race seats, lightweight steel doors, no heater box ect.
I like to keep it about stock height so headers clear on/off trailer.
Good luck maybe see you at Glory Days Byron, say hi to your Dad, Bob

[Nightmist66]

Thanks again, Bob.

Unfortunately, I have already looked at Rock Auto. First place I went. As soon as you load the part into the cart, it says not available and removes it for you.   I googled quite a few other places. Summit and Jegs list them, but Summit shows discontinued and Jegs has no real ship date. Pretty much everywhere else I looked says the same thing, discontinued or on backorder...I know a guy with a spring and fender shop, so maybe I'll see if he can track them down or give him the specs I'm looking for and go with another brand.

I forgot to register for the Glory Days, so I'm not sure if they will let me in. Might see you at a T&T event before then. Take care.

[JamesonRacing]

Maybe worth a try here:

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/2333525/name/Moog-8236-Front-Constant-Rate-Coil-Springs

[wowens]

Maybe worth a try here:

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/2333525/name/Moog-8236-Front-Constant-Rate-Coil-Springs

Been following this thread, looked at the site.
Says on " indefinite backorder" for that part #.

Try Eaton Detroit Spring for 289 W/O a/c springs or
Coiling Technologies Inc. for custom.

[Nightmist66]

Thanks, David.

I have already looked there, but as Woody mentioned, it says indefinite backorder.....


Woody,

Thanks for the references, I will give them a looksee. 

[HR427]

Try Landrum spring from  https://rinehartsperformance.com/

[Nightmist66]

Try Landrum spring from  https://rinehartsperformance.com/

Thank you for the lead.

[Nightmist66]

Springs may be on hold....bigger fish to fry right now. Last year I noticed the last 50-100 miles I drove it, a little oil was starting to show up in the radiator. No big deal, oil was clean, so I topped it off. Also, I had put a used oil pan on that had minor dings from a car that did a few wheelies that I straightened out and it developed a hairline crack right next to the drain plug bung. I temporarily used some JB weld to fix the oil pan leak. Sat. I pulled the pan to fix it right and I looked up inside and saw a little water trickling down from #4 main/cam bearing. Looks like a classic cracked rocker oil feed. Block, heads, and intake were all pressure tested prior to this rebuild and all was well. Engine is on the stand right now awaiting repairs. Down for maintenance again....

[turbohunter]

Uhh
I feel for you. I’ve been bitten by that bug.

[babybolt]

Anyone running a rear sway bar with their leaf spring Mustang/Fairlane drag car?

[cjshaker]

That stinks, Jared. Hopefully that's all it is. Having to pull a fresh engine out is a little disheartening.

[Stangman]

I feel for you Jared Im going through a problem myself I just want it to go away. Good thing is you found it if you werent paying attention and missed it it could have been worse. So Good catch.

[Nightmist66]

Thanks guys. Maybe third time will be the charm? I hope. Joe, I also feel for you. Hopefully you get sorted out alright. I do keep a close eye on the gauges at all times and check things over every time I drive it. Yes, had I let it go, it could be much worse...

[Falcon67]

Anyone running a rear sway bar with their leaf spring Mustang/Fairlane drag car?

Not here.  Why. 

[6667fan]

Sorry to hear about this Jared. Sounds like you are getting right after it. Getting any ideas about any changes now that it’s been pulled?
I took a winter off from my “annual” engine remove and rebuild. Of course that did not mean I couldn’t remove/replace trans and take third member half apart.

[BattlestarGalactic]

Anyone running a rear sway bar with their leaf spring Mustang/Fairlane drag car?

Not here.  Why.

I guess they use it like as an Anti Roll bar if the car has a tendency to squat on one side.

[Nightmist66]

Sorry to hear about this Jared. Sounds like you are getting right after it. Getting any ideas about any changes now that it’s been pulled?
I took a winter off from my “annual” engine remove and rebuild. Of course that did not mean I couldn’t remove/replace trans and take third member half apart.

I have had a few ideas, alright. I don't think I will end up changing anything except what needs to be fixed. I will end up spending a few thousand more dollars at it before I know it, and it will be like last time where I kept changing my mind as I went and took forever. I would still like to reach my goal at the track with the current combo. I know it is capable. I will probably finish tearing it down this weekend. I already swapped the 4.86 in it, so that's off the list. I was hoping for more minor changes like that and the front springs/shocks. Now I have another engine rebuild....Might see if I can get my headers powder coated white this time, too. I think Jet Hot is the only one now that offers a high temp white.

[Jim Comet]

I have a set of Moroso drag springs with 1/2 ha coil cut off and a pair of Koni 3 way adjustable shocks for my 66 Comet. Here is a photo. You can have them for the shipping if you want them. Here is a photo of the car with my iron headed 390 to see the stance. Jim

[Nightmist66]

I have a set of Moroso drag springs with 1/2 ha coil cut off and a pair of Koni 3 way adjustable shocks for my 66 Comet. Here is a photo. You can have them for the shipping if you want them. Here is a photo of the car with my iron headed 390 to see the stance. Jim

I really appreciate your offer, Jim. Very nice of you. I still can't decide if I want to try the Moog or the Moroso. I need to get the engine fixed first. I will certainly keep you in mind and let you know which way I go. Thanks again. Which springs are in the car currently?

[Jim Comet]

My home made setup to get rid of the shock towers. Here is a launch pic with the old Moroso springs on a 7.70 1/8th mile pass.

[Nightmist66]

I think I do remember that you might have shown that in a build thread a while back. Pesky shock towers.