Advice needed on buying old core engines

[durkzz8]

We had a junkyard close a few years ago and I ran into the old owner yesterday. We got to talking about when I pulled a 390 s code intake, as a teen, and walked it up to the counter from the back of the yard and he gave it to me. Told me he figured I had worked hard enough for it. Then he brought up that he had three FE engines sitting in the barn at his house. He said he knows nothing about what they were pulled from but they have been in the barn since he was running the junkyard from his house, probably the mid-70's. He offered them to me for $400. I am going next week to check them out. What should I look for and does it seem like a good deal? I know there is a possibility I could end up with three 360's but beyond that would I be able to break even selling parts off of them? I don't have a use for them but would hate to see them meet the same fate as everything that was in the yard. It was all crushed and scraped.

[chilly460]

Worst case they're all 352/360s.  Figure $150 for a 360 block.  I don't even know the market on a 352 block, but considering they can be bored to standard 390 bore fairly reliably, should be able to get $100 for one.  Heads would likely be better on a 352, maybe $150 for a set of C1AE or C4AEs.  360 would likely be C8AE/D2TE type heads which I consider a $50 core value anymore.  Cranks and rods out of 352/360 are just about scrap value unfortunately.  Intakes, a 4bbl is worth maybe $50, anything else pretty much scrap.  If they have brackets/tins/timing covers/water pumps/oil adapters....that stuff is probably worth as much or more than the heavy pieces for 352/360.  390 bumps value up to $300 per engine, easy. 

Mind you, I think in realistic "get it out of my shed" values....not what some guy on Facebook saying he got $750 for a 352 core.   

[Gaugster]

I can think of a few items to check. Do they still rotate? Probably pull the plugs and spray some WD-40 in the cylinders. Then maybe you can check the stroke on them. Cut open the oil filters and look for metal. 4 bolt vs 2 bolt pattern engine mounts. Heads from 1972+ will have hardened valve seats. T=Truck, A=Automobile. "Mirror 105" blocks and Service (ribbed) blocks are more desirable. Early blocks might not be drilled for hydraulic lifters. No capped off holes in the Micky Mouse ears would be solids only.

[thatdarncat]

I can think of a few items to check. Do they still rotate? Probably pull the plugs and spray some WD-40 in the cylinders. Then maybe you can check the stroke on them. Cut open the oil filters and look for metal. 4 bolt vs 2 bolt pattern engine mounts. Heads from 1972+ will have hardened valve seats. T=Truck, A=Automobile. "Mirror 105" blocks and Service (ribbed) blocks are more desirable. Early blocks might not be drilled for hydraulic lifters. No capped off holes in the Micky Mouse ears would be solids only.

You can’t necessarily go by the “T” being “Truck” and “A” being “Automobile” as far as identifying what a particular FE engine was originally installed in - lots of castings were used on both, particularly cylinder heads & intake manifolds. People get thrown off all the time with FE’s doing that. A better thing to look for would be the small metal engine tag if it has one, but those were not used in every FE model year. Likewise the “ribs” on a FE block do not necessarily mean it’s a “service block”. The external “ribs” are just a characteristic of Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF) cast FE/FT blocks starting around the beginning of the 1971 calendar year. Lots of people with original Ford trucks & pickups of that era with the original engine have proven that, along with not finding any DIF cast blocks of that era that don’t have “ribs”. The “ribs” being a “service” block only applies to the 427 & 428 blocks since those were no longer being put in production vehicles by that time.

Checking the date codes can be helpful, and comparing them to the other date codes on the engine, if nothing else it can narrow down the possibilities, and checking the motor mount pattern is good advice. Keep in mind the hardened exhaust valve seats of the D2TE-AA heads are only induction hardened, they are not the same as the hardened valve seats inserts a machine shop would install.

[427John]

400 for 3 FE's makes them about $135 which is pretty decent for a core engine if they're not stuck especially if they are complete with good tin and brackets and pulleys.4 barrel intakes are a plus as are A/C and P/S brackets,even uncracked exhaust manifolds are pretty easy to flip seems like there is always somebody looking for them to replace broken ones on their pickup.

[428kidd]

Cant go wrong at that price unless there all out side in the rain!

[FERoadster]

Agree with the other suggestions, If you can see the rear flange of the crank crank and indicator (although sketchy) is a flange with a half moon is most likely a 3.50 stroke   (aka 352-360) on later engines. A half moon with a square notch or just a square notch it is not likely a 3.50 crank.
Here in SW Oregon I get calls from the scrap yard when they get a FE in and pay $100 with them placed in my PU bed.
Location can mean a lot to cost but not value. I've picked up around 20 FE's from the scrap yard, disassemble them and stack them in my shop. I can get around $50 for all of the small parts.
Richard >>> FERoadster

[fryedaddy]

those engines may have been put in the barn for a reason.look for high performance exhaust manifolds.you may get lucky and find cj or gt 390,even look for cross bolted mains-427. thats the stuff i would be looking for.if you have any of this it would be worth alot more than 400 dollars.

[Gregwill16]

+1 That was my thoughts is junk yards don't keep much, so a reason they were squirrels away. It may be as simple as they were 4V but you never know.

[thatdarncat]

I’m not totally disagreeing with what Richard said about the crank flange, because he properly hedged it, but I’m going to expand on it. I see this on the internet all the time because people think they’ve found an easy I.D. tip. You can NOT positively identify the stroke or size of an assembled FE by looking at the crank flange. The “half moon” thing only applies sometimes, and unless you know for sure the engine has never been rebuilt, and the model year you’re looking at, you just can’t be sure what you have without checking the I.D. number on the crank or measuring the stroke.

If the engine has been through a mass rebuilder, or a previous owner did a rebuild with an exchange crank from a local crank grinder or auto parts retailer, there’s no telling which crank is in an assembled engine.

I’d hate to see someone pass on a good FE because they followed that “internet” tip.

Here’s a C1AE-A 3.78” stroke crank, it has a half moon cut out and a notch.





Here’s a C4AE-B 3.78” stroke crank, it has a half moon cut out and a notch.





Here’s a “2TA” 3.50” stroke crank, it has a half moon cut out and a notch.

[427John]

Kevin is there any difference in the size or depth of the half moons,if there is that may be an indicator since it is the path for the boring tool that drills the the throw of the crank.If the bored hole in the throw of the rod journal is centered in the journal it stands to reason that a longer throwed crank would have a smaller/shallower half moon.

[thatdarncat]

Kevin is there any difference in the size or depth of the half moons,if there is that may be an indicator since it is the path for the boring tool that drills the the throw of the crank.If the bored hole in the throw of the rod journal is centered in the journal it stands to reason that a longer throwed crank would have a smaller/shallower half moon.

I took the pictures of the C1AE-A & C4AE-B cranks last summer, they weren’t mine and have since been sold, so I don’t have them handy to measure. I did look at that last summer next to the 3.50” stroke cranks, and it looked pretty much the same, but I didn’t measure because they seemed close enough that with a casual glance at the salvage yard it wouldn’t have helped. The point is that the “half moon” thing alone won’t help. Maybe if someone has some early 3.78” stroke cranks they can check. I know the angles of the pictures makes it hard to compare.

[Gaugster]

I can think of a few items to check. Do they still rotate? Probably pull the plugs and spray some WD-40 in the cylinders. Then maybe you can check the stroke on them. Cut open the oil filters and look for metal. 4 bolt vs 2 bolt pattern engine mounts. Heads from 1972+ will have hardened valve seats. T=Truck, A=Automobile. "Mirror 105" blocks and Service (ribbed) blocks are more desirable. Early blocks might not be drilled for hydraulic lifters. No capped off holes in the Micky Mouse ears would be solids only.

You can’t necessarily go by the “T” being “Truck” and “A” being “Automobile” as far as identifying what a particular FE engine was originally installed in - lots of castings were used on both, particularly cylinder heads & intake manifolds. People get thrown off all the time with FE’s doing that. A better thing to look for would be the small metal engine tag if it has one, but those were not used in every FE model year. Likewise the “ribs” on a FE block do not necessarily mean it’s a “service block”. The external “ribs” are just a characteristic of Dearborn Iron Foundry (DIF) cast FE/FT blocks starting around the beginning of the 1971 calendar year. Lots of people with original Ford trucks & pickups of that era with the original engine have proven that, along with not finding any DIF cast blocks of that era that don’t have “ribs”. The “ribs” being a “service” block only applies to the 427 & 428 blocks since those were no longer being put in production vehicles by that time.

Checking the date codes can be helpful, and comparing them to the other date codes on the engine, if nothing else it can narrow down the possibilities, and checking the motor mount pattern is good advice. Keep in mind the hardened exhaust valve seats of the D2TE-AA heads are only induction hardened, they are not the same as the hardened valve seats inserts a machine shop would install.

Thanks for the corrections. I'm searching for engines too and every tip helps.

[427John]

It does, you were probably seeing the same thing I was,I was trying to compare how far the half moon came down in relation to the bolt holes but the different angles made it tough.Frome the pictures it looked like the 2 390 cranks half moons didn't reach down as far in relation to the bolt holes.

[427John]

Ok went out a and did a little checking and blew my theory out of the water,the lightening hole drilled in the last throw is not centered in the rod journal so will have no effect on the depth of the half moon,also took calipers to a 64 352 crank an  C1AE-A 390 crank and the half moons appear to be identical in depth,so looked at a 428 crank and noted that it has a notch and a drilled hole in the flange,then looked at a later 2U 390 crank and guess what, it also has a notch and a drilled hole,so based on that I don't see how the appearance of the crank flange can be of any help in identifying the stroke of a crank like chevrolets.It appears that most earlier cranks used the half moon and notch ,while some later cranks used a drilled hole and notch,it does appear that some of the later 360 2T cranks still used the half moon.So lacking the ability to turn the engine over and measure the stroke ,your stuck pulling the pan unless you have a borescope that you can stick in the drainplug to check the counterweights for bevels and all that does is eliminate the 3.5 stroke crank,it could still be either a 3.78 or 3.98 stroke crank.This of course only applies to stock cast FE cranks,forged 427 or FT cranks are another matter.