Oil Pump Dyno

[pbf777]

     Solely for testing, one could fabricate a stop for the bypass spool-valve in order to limit the variable of its' operation to aid in conclusions as to the point of function.

     One example of how a test instrument can be made if the P.U. tube flange provision is insufficient for such, is with a piece of steel flat-stock (maybe 3/8" in thickness) sandwiched between the P.U. tube flange and the pump bolt flange face, this mirroring the pump flange face with the matching two retention bolt holes and oil pathway orifice, but also incorporating a threaded hole (say 5/16" x 24T.) centered over the bypass plug & boring, in order to receive a threaded bolt or rod of a length permitting it to contact the hollow bodied spool-valve thereby not permitting it's movement.  This threaded fixture would pass thru a hole punched in the plug of reasonably close fitment, though not critical as any sealing requirement will be accomplished by the relationship of the gasketed surfaces of the flange, and the retention of the plug is only to retain the spring & valve for convenience and to provide for the installed height of the spring if other testing requiring (such as perhaps providing for a travel limit value to the valve to reduce a rebound inertia travel value in it's operation? provide a metering effect of the bypass orifice by reducing the maximum exposure, or other valve movement observation opportunities?) or the plug & spring could just be deleted for this test.  Some trimming of the P.U. tube flange, again if its' not suitable for this use it's self this eliminating the need of the separate plate, may be required for clearance of this threaded bolt/rod and preferably with a locking nut feature.

     A variable is introduced with the additional transitions created by the stacking in the oil feed pathway so one would want to limit the dimensional changes of these as much as possible.     

     And this is intended as a tool with perhaps further or other pump testing possibilities, otherwise maybe more work than it's worth?         Or you could just whittle out a wooden plug and pound it in!     

     Scott.

[Blueoval77]

I would think that along those same lines  the piece that is being made to go between the pickup flange and the pump could have a sleeve that extended into the bore and blocked the original opening  . At taht point you could move the bypass out of there all together and make the adjustable one external to the pump.

[WConley]

This is one method that I have been experimenting with for dyno testing different pressures vs horsepower loss or gain.  I also open up the oil passages, blend them with as smooth a radius as possible without weakening the pump housing, polish the gears, remove any excess housing clearances, and loc-tite the bolts.  With this modification, I can move the by-pass plunger spring up to ~.400" travel.  Joe-JDC

Joe's post shows an interesting modification for manipulating the bypass plunger.  Right now I'm fully busy with the test rig developing some new stuff.  I'll be showing that over the next few weeks!

[Joe-JDC]

If you do the variable spring tension modification like I pictured, you will need a grade 8 or better washer to fit at the end of the spring so the bolt threads will not slip into the inside of the spring.  I used two so they would have less friction, and not cup.  My washers are ~.015" thick.  I also milled the inside of the plug for the additional washer thickness and for the spring to relax even more to lower the final bypass pressure. I was attempting to find what lowering the operating pressure at WOT would do, and if there would be a horespower difference that was measurable.  I also was trying to see just how much oil would be used out of the pan with different pressures.  Once you get started with these mind games, you can lose yourself in testing to infinite variables.  LOL   Joe-JDC

[338Raptor]

So what have we learned so far???

-  It’s a probably a good idea to case harden the oil pump end plate and using a thicker plate or doubling up the end plate with longer bolts might be a good idea as well?

-  Purchasing a “blueprinted” oil pump (ie. Precision Oil Pumps) actually helps increase flow and is probably worth doing?

-  Running a slightly higher than standard relief setting is a good way to move the cavitation problem up the RPM range thus minimizing chance of it happening?

-  HV pumps are not required in the vast majority of engine builds.

-  Using the relief at the back of a SideOiler block as your primary relief and setting the relief inside the oil pump 10 psi higher may be a good idea?

Agree?   Disagree?

[Blueoval77]

I would agree with most of that . Also I am throwing a question out there to you guys that have been in this for a very long time and seen it  I think its relative .
 
The oil filter issue  Who has had these things split on them ? At what kind of pressures did they do this and where exactly in the filter did it split ? Aside from the H&M filter what was the work around for these issues ?
My 66 fast back had a high revving small block in it and the original owner had transformed it into a mini gasser way back when . His family members reference it "Exploding" oil filters among other 4 speed related items but no one has any detailed info on that.

Ive never had one cone apart and I have always run the fram of the FL-1A with never any more than about 80 PSI.

[blykins]

I would agree with most of that . Also I am throwing a question out there to you guys that have been in this for a very long time and seen it  I think its relative .
 
The oil filter issue  Who has had these things split on them ? At what kind of pressures did they do this and where exactly in the filter did it split ? Aside from the H&M filter what was the work around for these issues ?
My 66 fast back had a high revving small block in it and the original owner had transformed it into a mini gasser way back when . His family members reference it "Exploding" oil filters among other 4 speed related items but no one has any detailed info on that.

Ive never had one cone apart and I have always run the fram of the FL-1A with never any more than about 80 PSI.

It would take about 120 psi to explode a good filter.  They will start to bulge a little under that.

[frnkeore]

I can't say what might happen on a street engine, that runs for long periods but, the 427 LR I was running, in 1969, was a roller cam, drag race, race engine, so it ran for short periods. As I stated, somewhere above, on 20-50 Valvoline, it pegged the 120 lb gauge, when cold and ran in the 80's warm. I only used Fram filters in those days and never blew one but, there were warnings about that, in those days. Also, I never saw or heard of anyone blowing one at the track.

Since the 427 has always had the block relief valve, I would think that there would be more info about the high, cold pressures, related to the 427, on this forum.

Did the original 427 oil pumps have higher pressure relief valves and no one makes them any more?

[RJP]

I will never use Fram oil filters again. After 2 filter failures you kinda get the message that their Q/C is not up to par. They didn't bulge, due to high oil pressure as I am not a big fan of ultra high oil pressure as once was believed that FEs needed 100+lbs to live. I aim for 60-65lbs hot/running to be sufficient. The Fram failures I experienced were in the internal bypass that caused a 25-30 lb loss of pressure under all conditions, cold, hot, made no difference. The filters just didn't flow properly. 

[frnkeore]

I'm not advocating high oil pressures. Even in '69, the standard for oil pressure was 10 lb per 1000 rpm. That puts the FE at about 70 lb max.

Today, the standard is more like 50-60 lb at any rpm for various reasons, compared to the old days. I still like to err on the high side though.

I was just stating what it was 50 years ago and the tracks didn't seem to be cover with oil, from busted filters.

[Blueoval77]

Im just looking for personal stories just like these as I think it does relate to the thread , not trying to hijack it Bill , Just learning a few things myself. Ive always kept mine in the 70s-80s but have been considering going higher the next time around just out of knowledge ive gained over the years with other things.
I havnt dealt with them until now but it would seem that this system in the 427 was a big advantage over its FE brethren and seems overlooked or atleast not spot lighted...

[blykins]

Im just looking for personal stories just like these as I think it does relate to the thread , not trying to hijack it Bill , Just learning a few things myself. Ive always kept mine in the 70s-80s but have been considering going higher the next time around just out of knowledge ive gained over the years with other things.
I havnt dealt with them until now but it would seem that this system in the 427 was a big advantage over its FE brethren and seems overlooked or atleast not spot lighted...

From what I've seen over the years, 70's-80's is all you need and a lot of time, you don't even need that much.   75psi will cover your hindend to 8000 rpm on a properly spec'd combination.

[oldiron.fe]

   wix 51515r rated flow 28 gpm nitrile gasket 300 degree operating temp-- up to 500..burst psi the case is chunky / steel tube center/ anti-drain back valve only one for oldiron building/race fe since early 60s oem iron hirise head/block 10.5 pump gas 670hp  iron hp coming!

[WConley]

Im just looking for personal stories just like these as I think it does relate to the thread , not trying to hijack it Bill , Just learning a few things myself. Ive always kept mine in the 70s-80s but have been considering going higher the next time around just out of knowledge ive gained over the years with other things.
I havnt dealt with them until now but it would seem that this system in the 427 was a big advantage over its FE brethren and seems overlooked or atleast not spot lighted...

From what I've seen over the years, 70's-80's is all you need and a lot of time, you don't even need that much.   75psi will cover your hindend to 8000 rpm on a properly spec'd combination.

From the engine design side, I agree with this.  Bearings create their own film pressure.  You just need a full oil supply at slightly above zero psi to let them do their thing.  What the excess pressure does is create leakage flow out the sides.  This carries away heat - very important at high loads!  The engine builder guys will tell you that side clearance is important.  This is the reason.

If you don't believe me, Google Reynolds Equation and journal bearing lubrication.  If you can get through that, you're a hero!  The upshot is that a journal bearing pulls oil into a "wedge" area of high pressure (can be > 3000 psi in an engine).

[Barry_R]

Side clearance is a really obscure topic - or so it seems.  I have run some really tight (.007) without apparent ill effect.  Race applications with piston guided rods have run at over .125.  One guy I respect likes about four times the bearing clearance as a minimum.