Author Topic: MSD 8595 installation on 390 FE (Read 28510 times)

amdscooter · « **on:** March 02, 2013, 10:53:09 PM »

Quick question for the crowd. My new Mallory 8595, blaster2 coil and plug wires arrived this week and I finally had some time today to install them. I got under the hood this afternoon, pulled the plugs, got the crank to TDC on #1 and yanked the stock distributor. I gooped up the cam gear with Cam assembly lube and went to installing the new distributor. It slipped in fine but was really tight when it got down to the gear mesh on the cam. So much so I had to tap it in with mallet. The distributor body itself rotates freely. Cranking the motor over with the coil disconnected, it's noticeably cranking slower than before. I cannot locate the info now.. but I seem to remember reading that there are at least 3 different sets of gears available for this unit. IIRC they are different for hydraulic & roller flat tappet cams. Mine came with what appeared to be cast iron.. but to be honest I'm not sure. I figured since my cam is very similar to the stock (Comp 268H hydraulic flat tappet) it would not be an issue. I'm pulling it out tomorrow regardless. So.. on to the questions.

Would using the wrong gear style cause the tight gear mesh I'm experiencing or should any of them fit the same? Do you guys think this is a defective unit? As I stated above the distributor housing rotates freely (like if you were twisting it to adjust the timing). And it's nearly perfectly centered in the intake bore.. no interference issues there and the old one fit fine as well. I seem to remember reading that the bronze gear worked with any type of cam, would it be worth it to get a bronze gear from MSD? If yes is replacement done by simply punching out the roll pin and installing the new gear in the same location with a new pin?

jayb · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:10:05 AM »

That distributor comes with the cast iron gear. Regardless of material, all the gears will be the same. Can you take some measurements on the MSD gear and the original gear and see if there are any differences, like thickness of the teeth or diameter of the gear? How about diameter of the bottom shaft that goes into the block? Also, make sure you check the dimension shown in the MSD instructions for the distance from the gear to the distributor body.

If you had to tap the distributor to get it in place, does it also not want to come out? When you take it back out, look on the gear and the bottom shaft and see if you can see evidence of binding or tightness.

Also when you pull the distributor out, take a look down the hole at the oil pump driveshaft. Does it look OK down there? Is there a burr on the driveshaft, like the distributor wasn't lined up quite right with the hex on the driveshaft and galled it up or something like that? After the distributor is out I'd put a 5/16" 6 point quarter inch socket on an extension, put it down the hole and spin the driveshaft to make sure it spins freely. Tape the socket to the extension so it doesn't come apart when you put it in the hole. And don't force it onto the oil pump driveshaft or you might have a lot of trouble getting it back off.

If you can observe some wear once you have the distributor out, or find some differences in the measurements it should clue you in to where the problem is. I have to say I find it hard to believe that the distributor being installed puts such a drag on the motor that it turns over slower. If that is really true, something is way, way too tight in there...

funsummer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:30:40 AM »

When you have your distributor out could you do me a favour?
I need to determine the correct height of the oil pump shaft in relation to some part of the block.
Be very much appreciated.
reason for this i have fitted a main cap girdle and i think i may have a oil pump shaft that is to short.

With your dizzy check clearance on the china wall at front of valley, may be twisting dizzy of line.
I have a 390 block and i had to file the china wall back a bit as my dizzy was just catching on the block casting. Was fine with stock dizzy, aftermarket dizzy was contacting it. Was catching in last 1/2" of installed height.

amdscooter · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:35:04 AM »

^^^ Thanks for the suggestions. Now that I know all the gears are the same dimensions I'm really curious to see WTf is going on down there. It's still in the car as I had to wrap up earlier than I wanted. I'll be pulling it tomorrow if all goes well. After i get it out I'll dust off my caliper and take some measurements of the gear. I usually use a nut driver to turn the pump drive shaft.. I used a lot of "Right stuff" on the pan and don't wanna ever have to go fishing for sockets!

amdscooter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:40:29 AM »

Quote from: funsummer on March 03, 2013, 12:30:40 AM

When you have your distributor out could you do me a favour?
I need to determine the correct height of the oil pump shaft in relation to some part of the block.
Be very much appreciated.
reason for this i have fitted a main cap girdle and i think i may have a oil pump shaft that is to short.

With your dizzy check clearance on the china wall at front of valley, may be twisting dizzy of line.
I have a 390 block and i had to file the china wall back a bit as my dizzy was just catching on the block casting. Was fine with stock dizzy, aftermarket dizzy was contacting it. Was catching in last 1/2" of installed height.

I can probably get the back end of my caliper down there and get the height from the top of the shaft to the top of the bore the upper end of the shaft sits in where it slides into the bottom of the distributor gear. Would that do?

As far as the dist housing itself, it seems to fit fine and rotates freely. So I don't think there are any interference issues with the block. thanks for the suggestion.

amdscooter · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:44:49 AM »

Quote from: jayb on March 03, 2013, 12:10:05 AM

. . . Also, make sure you check the dimension shown in the MSD instructions for the distance from the gear to the distributor body.. . .

Just re-read the instructions.. no mention of a pre measurement. I downloaded the pdf from MSD's website as well.. it matches what came in the box. Do you by chance have a link to the addendum?

funsummer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:09:53 AM »

Quote from: amdscooter on March 03, 2013, 12:40:29 AM

Quote from: funsummer on March 03, 2013, 12:30:40 AM
When you have your distributor out could you do me a favour?
I need to determine the correct height of the oil pump shaft in relation to some part of the block.
Be very much appreciated.
reason for this i have fitted a main cap girdle and i think i may have a oil pump shaft that is to short.

With your dizzy check clearance on the china wall at front of valley, may be twisting dizzy of line.
I have a 390 block and i had to file the china wall back a bit as my dizzy was just catching on the block casting. Was fine with stock dizzy, aftermarket dizzy was contacting it. Was catching in last 1/2" of installed height.

I can probably get the back end of my caliper down there and get the height from the top of the shaft to the top of the bore the upper end of the shaft sits in where it slides into the bottom of the distributor gear. Would that do?

As far as the dist housing itself, it seems to fit fine and rotates freely. So I don't think there are any interference issues with the block. thanks for the suggestion.

That measurement you have suggested be fine.
Thank you very much.
My dizzy still rotated easy, was just being pushed by the china wall. Have a look at yours when its out.

bartlett · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2013, 08:16:43 AM »

I would be real careful about taping ect on the dizzy to install it. You need to be sure the oil pump drive shaft is just right to get the dizzy to drop. Like jay said you drop it in and if it don't drop all the way in you pull it out and turn the oil pump shaft a little bit and retry. I would also do a side by side of the old and new to besure you have the correct dizzy and or gear height ect. We all know weird things can happen. maybe swap gears and see if it fixes the issue. personaly I would never try it tight. you risk grinding the cam gear and then your infor a big job.

fe66comet · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2013, 10:21:23 AM »

I had to get a gear from comp cams just for my FE can. The one for the stock can was a slightly different pitch which would cause binding.

amdscooter · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2013, 10:33:44 AM »

Quote from: bartlett on March 03, 2013, 08:16:43 AM

I would be real careful about taping ect on the dizzy to install it. You need to be sure the oil pump drive shaft is just right to get the dizzy to drop. Like jay said you drop it in and if it don't drop all the way in you pull it out and turn the oil pump shaft a little bit and retry. I would also do a side by side of the old and new to besure you have the correct dizzy and or gear height ect. We all know weird things can happen. maybe swap gears and see if it fixes the issue. personaly I would never try it tight. you risk grinding the cam gear and then your infor a big job.

Had kinda a restless night thinking about what a "not so smart" move it was to tap it in. Soon as I'm done with my coffee I'm headed under the hood... and switching to beer.

Once I get it out I'm planning on doing a side by side with the old and measuring the placement and overall dimensions of the gear. I'm also going to see how well the old pump drive shaft I have leftover from the rebuild fits. As easy as it twists it's either tight on the gear -or- the oil pump drive shaft. Which should engage first.. the pump shaft or the gear on the cam? IIRC it was the shaft on mine as I was still able to turn the rotor while trying to get the shaft to engage.

I've already had not so great thoughts about the drive shaft being stuck.. breaking the retaining clip and coming out with the dizzy just far enough to fall back into the abyss. So slow and easy is the motto for today under the hood work with timeouts for the prayer mat hoping I did not just buy myself a lot of work and additional $$$ by being impatient.

fe66comet · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2013, 10:49:08 AM »

It will engage the shaft first then the gear. Opposite of a Chevy. I would call comp cams and ask. The clip if it falls off ends up in the pan.

amdscooter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2013, 10:58:17 AM »

Quote from: fe66comet on March 03, 2013, 10:49:08 AM

It will engage the shaft first then the gear. Opposite of a Chevy. I would call comp cams and ask. The clip if it falls off ends up in the pan.

^^^ That'd be a nightmare scenario for me. With my luck I'd be able to recover either the shaft or the clip.. but not both. I used "Right Stuff" on both sides of the pan gasket, I could probably take every bolt outta the pan at this point and it'd never budge. Not to mention how "fun" it would be to fish around in the pan. What with there being so much movement on the pan with the cossmember and oil scupper fighting you for every inch of access.....

fe66comet · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2013, 11:05:19 AM »

I honestly doubt the clip is an issue, I am leaning toward the gear, I have myself ran into this problem with aftermarket parts.

jayb · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2013, 11:18:54 AM »

Here are a couple of sets of instructions, one from MSD and one from Ford, showing the correct distance between the distributor gear and the housing, plus end play. They are not the same, so I have to assume that there is some difference in the distributors or gears. This measurement is not your problem, but you should probably check it anyway. Note that when you make the measurement from the bottom of the gear to the housing, the shaft should be pushed up into the distributor as far as possible:

jayb · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2013, 11:32:58 AM »

Quote from: amdscooter on March 03, 2013, 10:58:17 AM

Quote from: fe66comet on March 03, 2013, 10:49:08 AM
It will engage the shaft first then the gear. Opposite of a Chevy. I would call comp cams and ask. The clip if it falls off ends up in the pan.

^^^ That'd be a nightmare scenario for me. With my luck I'd be able to recover either the shaft or the clip.. but not both. I used "Right Stuff" on both sides of the pan gasket, I could probably take every bolt outta the pan at this point and it'd never budge. Not to mention how "fun" it would be to fish around in the pan. What with there being so much movement on the pan with the cossmember and oil scupper fighting you for every inch of access.....

I hate to admit it, but I've put a lot of miles on one of my engines with that clip and an extra oil pump driveshaft rattling around in the pan LOL! It's creepy, but it usually doesn't hurt anything. Neither one of those items is small enough to get through the screen on the oil pump pickup. This happened to me back in the early 1980s with the 428CJ in my '68 Shelby. The shaft was seized in the bottom of the distributor, and it dragged the clip off the shaft as I was pulling the distributor out. Then, just as I got the distributor out and the shaft was still in the hole, it dropped free, all the way down to the pan. I could not get it out of there, so I ended up bumping it to the side with a long screwdriver so it was out of the way, gluing a new shaft into the bottom of the replacement distributor, and installing it. Not that I'm recommending that, but the car was my daily driver back then, and I had to get to work the next day. The shaft sat down there harmlessly all summer, and through a fair amount of WOT action on Friday and Saturday nights. When I pulled the motor over the winter and tore it down, there was the driveshaft and the clip, just sitting in the pan. I'm sure the windage tray kept it out of the reciprocating assembly. Maybe I was lucky, but I think if you lose it down there its not a huge disaster...

afret · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:11:11 PM »

Quote from: jayb on March 03, 2013, 11:18:54 AM

Here are a couple of sets of instructions, one from MSD and one from Ford, showing the correct distance between the distributor gear and the housing, plus end play. They are not the same, so I have to assume that there is some difference in the distributors or gears. This measurement is not your problem, but you should probably check it anyway. Note that when you make the measurement from the bottom of the gear to the housing, the shaft should be pushed up into the distributor as far as possible:

The difference from the Ford number and the MSD number is Ford tells you to pull the shaft/gear out away from the body and MSD wants you to push the gear/shaft inward

amdscooter · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2013, 02:22:47 PM »

Jay, thanks for that info. I have saved the pics for my archives.

Well the dizzy came out without issue. A few dozen light taps with the smallest rubber tipped mallet I had on the bottom of the housing was all it took. Oil pump shaft stayed right where it should be thankfully. I fit my old oil pump drive shaft in the Mallory and it slides in and out without effort. I then slipped the Mallory dizzy slowly in and out of the bore, it starts to get tight as soon as it engages the cam gear. On mine it is well before it gets low enough to get on the oil pump shaft. Did it a few times for repeat ability and there is no doubt in my mind the gear is the issue.

Took some initial measurements of the old and new dizzy housings where they would enter the bore. They are are within .001 of each other. No signs of scuffing or installation burrs beyond what twisting to adjust the timing would do on either. Upper and lower bore in the block look fine as well. The old gear measured .447 tall. The new gear measured .479 tall. Not sure if the extra .032 makes any difference. Both gears measured about 1.413 overall diameter. I'll check the dimensions you posted above a bit later. I stuffed the old dizzy back in the bore to keep any low flying birds out.

I have no way to measure the pitch.. but that is what I suspect is the issue.

Would you guys recommend going to Comp (the 268H cam installed is made by them) or Mallory the dizzy manufacturer for a replacement gear?

fe66comet I took that measurement for you. I came up with between .493~.497 from different positions on that landing to the top of the oil pump shaft. Mind you I was using the back end of my caliper and not a depth micrometer for the measurement. Flying with what I have on hand here.

I did ensure the shaft was fully seated before taking the measurements. Hope that helps you out.

amdscooter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2013, 02:43:13 PM »

Quote from: afret on March 03, 2013, 12:11:11 PM

Quote from: jayb on March 03, 2013, 11:18:54 AM
Here are a couple of sets of instructions, one from MSD and one from Ford, showing the correct distance between the distributor gear and the housing, plus end play. They are not the same, so I have to assume that there is some difference in the distributors or gears. This measurement is not your problem, but you should probably check it anyway. Note that when you make the measurement from the bottom of the gear to the housing, the shaft should be pushed up into the distributor as far as possible:

The difference from the Ford number and the MSD number is Ford tells you to pull the shaft/gear out away from the body and MSD wants you to push the gear/shaft inward

^^^ Thanks for that. Just measured the MSD with the thrust collar/shaft pushed all the way against the body. I get between 3.069~3.066. While it look as if my gear is possibly a good .019 too low on the shaft, I don't think that's my present issue as the resistance starts immediately as soon as the gear on the dizzy engages the cam gear.

ScotiaFE · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2013, 06:01:43 PM »

Quote from: funsummer on March 03, 2013, 12:30:40 AM

When you have your distributor out could you do me a favour?
I need to determine the correct height of the oil pump shaft in relation to some part of the block.
Be very much appreciated.
reason for this i have fitted a main cap girdle and i think i may have a oil pump shaft that is to short.

With your dizzy check clearance on the china wall at front of valley, may be twisting dizzy of line.
I have a 390 block and i had to file the china wall back a bit as my dizzy was just catching on the block casting. Was fine with stock dizzy, aftermarket dizzy was contacting it. Was catching in last 1/2" of installed height.

You may be looking for one of these.

http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/-strse-74/FE-Ford-1-fdsh-4%22-Billet/Detail.bok

funsummer · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2013, 06:48:48 PM »

AmdScooter,
Thanks for that measurement, will be checking mine this weekend.

Scotia
I have a longer shaft, just not sure if i fitted it!!!

fe66comet · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2013, 07:08:39 PM »

I can't tell you how many engines I have worked on that had extra parts or a socket in the pan and no tray. The oil alone will hold it in the bottom of the pan.

amdscooter · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:53:51 PM »

Quote from: fe66comet on March 03, 2013, 10:21:23 AM

I had to get a gear from comp cams just for my FE can. The one for the stock can was a slightly different pitch which would cause binding.

Do you recall which gear you bought? I just got off the horn with Gabriel at Comp Cams and he states they do not sell a standard replacement for a regular flat tappet cam distributor drive gear. Composite, yes. Bronze, yes. But he states neither of those would last. /scratches head.

Cyclone03 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2013, 05:19:07 PM »

Is this a new build,Intake install? I ask because if you had the intake off and did not use a distributer to "pilot" the hole it may be out of line enough to cock the distributer just that much to bind things up.

amdscooter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2013, 07:02:34 PM »

Quote from: Cyclone03 on March 09, 2013, 05:19:07 PM

Is this a new build,Intake install? I ask because if you had the intake off and did not use a distributer to "pilot" the hole it may be out of line enough to cock the distributer just that much to bind things up.

It is a "newish" rebuild.. but it's been up and running for months. The stock dizzy fits fine.

afret · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2013, 08:11:44 PM »

Quote

^^^ Thanks for that. Just measured the MSD with the thrust collar/shaft pushed all the way against the body. I get between 3.069~3.066. While it look as if my gear is possibly a good .019 too low on the shaft, I don't think that's my present issue as the resistance starts immediately as soon as the gear on the dizzy engages the cam gear.

That's pretty far off. If you look into the distributor hole in the intake, you should see a shelf on the block that the distributor gear rides on. The gear gets pulled downward as it rotates and sits on this shelf as it spins. If it's too low, the gear would be pushed down on the block shelf and would bind when the hold down bolt/nut is tightened. If it's too high, the gear won't reach the shelf and the bearing in the distributor would wear out quickly as it would be taking all the downward force.
There is only a bit of leeway in gear placement on the shaft. The less endplay the distributor has, the more accurate it has to be. The stock distributor has quite a bit of endplay. I don't recall how much the MSD unit has.
A Crane distributor I have had almost no endplay so the gear placement had to be dead on. It was way off from Crane and would not have worked as is.

If you have turned the engine over with the MSD distributor bolted down, you might look at the bottom of the gear to see if you see any sign of wear. Also if you can measure the distributor shaft endplay on the bench, you can compare the number with the distributor in the engine. There should still be shaft endplay up and down but the number should be smaller than on the bench. If you measure this, you have to make sure you measure the actual shaft endplay and not the slop in the advance mechanism.

I guess there's always a chance MSD might have made an error and stuck a gear from a different engine on there. If you can't get a gear from MSD, Crane makes a steel gear for the bigger MSD shaft that works with flat tappet and roller cams.

http://www.cranecams.com/userfiles/288-290.pdf

I would think if the gear is the problem, MSD should make it right.

BruceS · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2013, 10:16:52 PM »

+1 on the shaft and clip in the pan! My '67 Mustang GT 390 saw many more street miles, and some drag race action, too... It was my only transport at the time. I had pulled it out to put the dist on a machine to check the advance curve.

amdscooter · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2013, 11:10:37 PM »

Quote from: afret on March 09, 2013, 08:11:44 PM

Quote
^^^ Thanks for that. Just measured the MSD with the thrust collar/shaft pushed all the way against the body. I get between 3.069~3.066. While it look as if my gear is possibly a good .019 too low on the shaft, I don't think that's my present issue as the resistance starts immediately as soon as the gear on the dizzy engages the cam gear.

That's pretty far off. If you look into the distributor hole in the intake, you should see a shelf on the block that the distributor gear rides on. The gear gets pulled downward as it rotates and sits on this shelf as it spins. If it's too low, the gear would be pushed down on the block shelf and would bind when the hold down bolt/nut is tightened. If it's too high, the gear won't reach the shelf and the bearing in the distributor would wear out quickly as it would be taking all the downward force.
There is only a bit of leeway in gear placement on the shaft. The less endplay the distributor has, the more accurate it has to be. The stock distributor has quite a bit of endplay. I don't recall how much the MSD unit has.
A Crane distributor I have had almost no endplay so the gear placement had to be dead on. It was way off from Crane and would not have worked as is.

If you have turned the engine over with the MSD distributor bolted down, you might look at the bottom of the gear to see if you see any sign of wear. Also if you can measure the distributor shaft endplay on the bench, you can compare the number with the distributor in the engine. There should still be shaft endplay up and down but the number should be smaller than on the bench. If you measure this, you have to make sure you measure the actual shaft endplay and not the slop in the advance mechanism.

I guess there's always a chance MSD might have made an error and stuck a gear from a different engine on there. If you can't get a gear from MSD, Crane makes a steel gear for the bigger MSD shaft that works with flat tappet and roller cams.

http://www.cranecams.com/userfiles/288-290.pdf

I would think if the gear is the problem, MSD should make it right.

I tried to call MSD today and was on hold forever... the rotating commercial was loud and annoyin and kept saying they were close on weekends.. but also that I was next to be served. I'm going to get the skinny from them before I do anything. The Dizzy is date coded 7/10/12 and I just bought it. They should make it right.

Oh, and Gabriel at Comp stated I should not use a bronze or composite dizzy gear with my cam as it'd wear out too fast.. really?

amdscooter · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2013, 04:47:04 PM »

Just got off the phone with MSD.. CS rep named Peter who sounded annoyed I asked his name at the beginning of our conversation insisted my issue was "core shift" before shooting me over to the RMA department without notice. Whatever. Prolly cost me as much in shipping as it would to order another gear. Would this Mallory gear be a suitable replacement?

Mallory 29419PD - Mallory Distributor Accessories
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mallory/650/29419PD/10002/-1

Or should I stick with what MSD recommends as a replacement for the ready to run 8595?

Ford 351C-460 Iron Distributor Gear
Part No. 85812
http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Acc_/Distributor_Gears/85812_-_Ford_351C-460_Iron_Distributor_Gear.aspx

Thanks
Scott

**edit**

I was just looking at the specs on that 85812 gear MSD lists as a replacement for the 8595 dizzy and it's for a .530 dia shaft. My 8595 has a .468 shaft and I cannot locate an MSD replacement for the 8595 with a .468 shaft. $:-\$ Looks like I'll be calling them again tomorrow.

afret · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2013, 10:20:28 PM »

Quote from: amdscooter on March 02, 2013, 10:53:09 PM

Quick question for the crowd. My new Mallory 8595, blaster2 coil and plug wires arrived this week and I finally had some time today to install them.

A .467 diameter shaft is usually on Ford and Mallory distributors. You said you had a Mallory distributor on your first post with an MSD number. The MSD shaft should be .531. What brand do you have?

amdscooter · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2013, 11:16:47 PM »

Quote from: afret on March 18, 2013, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: amdscooter on March 02, 2013, 10:53:09 PM
Quick question for the crowd. My new Mallory 8595, blaster2 coil and plug wires arrived this week and I finally had some time today to install them.

A .467 diameter shaft is usually on Ford and Mallory distributors. You said you had a Mallory distributor on your first post with an MSD number. The MSD shaft should be .531. What brand do you have?

It's a MSD Ready To Run 8595 with a .467 shaft.

Barry_R · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:16:46 AM »

MSD 8595 has a .531 shaft through the gear - we just installed one yesterday.

amdscooter · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2013, 09:24:41 PM »

Quote from: Barry_R on March 19, 2013, 06:16:46 AM

MSD 8595 has a .531 shaft through the gear - we just installed one yesterday.

Just re-measured mine. I did not realize the upper portion where the gear sits was wider than the lower segment where the oil pump drive shaft engages. So would this iron gear be a suitable replacement to mate up to my Comp 268H cam?

Ford 351C-460 Iron Distributor Gear
Part No. 85812

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Acc_/Distributor_Gears/85812_-_Ford_351C-460_Iron_Distributor_Gear.aspx

jayb · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2013, 10:25:50 PM »

I'm not sure about that part number, but I always buy the 460 Crane steel gears to run on my MSD distributors when I'm using a steel roller cam. So I think that 351C-460 gear is probably correct.

I was interested in what MSD told you about the issue with the gear, "core shift". Did you get any further details on that? It would be interesting to hear exactly how core shift could affect the gear...

amdscooter · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2013, 11:08:14 PM »

Quote from: jayb on March 19, 2013, 10:25:50 PM

I'm not sure about that part number, but I always buy the 460 Crane steel gears to run on my MSD distributors when I'm using a steel roller cam. So I think that 351C-460 gear is probably correct.

I'm going to go ahead and order that Iron gear. Thanks for the input.

Quote from: jayb on March 19, 2013, 10:25:50 PM

I was interested in what MSD told you about the issue with the gear, "core shift". Did you get any further details on that? It would be interesting to hear exactly how core shift could affect the gear...

No more news on that front. I explained to the CS rep Peter that the dizzy stops dead as soon as the gear engages the gear on the cam. He recommended trying some emery cloth. I said it's really tight, I doubt that would do the trick. That's when he brought up core shift as the culprit. I explained I thought the dizzy was not in anywhere near far enough at that point for core shift to be an issue as I understand it and that the re-manufactured dizzy in it fits and works fine. He responded "it's still a 45 year old part vs. our brand spanking new 8595". At about that point he responded flatly with "so what do you want me to do?". I said I'm not asking for magic here, just looking for recommendations or suggestions. Then I heard a click and found myself talking to a nice woman named Valarie in the RMA department.

MSD customer support is not in my good graces at the moment and I'm not real anxious to pick up the phone and wait through the hold music & advertisements to be treated like that again anytime soon. If I can fix my issues with a new gear, so be it. If not MSD can kiss my backside and my patronage goodbye. Good product or not, they are not the only game in town. Sorry for rant.. I'm still a bit bent about it.

jayb · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2013, 08:08:12 AM »

I don't blame you; I'd be upset too after being treated like that. That is totally different than how I've been treated at MSD; I wonder if your experience was an anomaly or if their customer service has just gone downhill...

afret · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2013, 11:02:33 AM »

You could just return that distributor and use your old one if that one fits fine. If it's a Ford point unit, just take the points out and convert it to a magnetic pickup from a Duraspark. You can get a decent ignition box and have money left over. You can get one from other than MSD too if you don't want to buy any of their stuff. Can't blame you for buying other than MSD.

I converted my points distributor to Duraspark internals, got an adapter for a big cap, and hooked it up to an ignition box. I got hold of a rebuilt FE Duraspark distributor and moved the needed parts over to the points distributor.

amdscooter · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2013, 09:41:25 PM »

^^^ That's a clean looking setup. I got the MSD online and am not really keen on the RMA process. If I can fix the issue with a $30 gear, that's preferable to me. I chose the MSD for the ease of adjustment for total mechanical advance, spring replacement, ability to lock out the vacuum advance and an option for a multi spark setup I can add in later. While their CS could use some polish, their hardware seems solid and well thought out.

amdscooter · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2013, 09:44:28 PM »

Quote from: jayb on March 20, 2013, 08:08:12 AM

I don't blame you; I'd be upset too after being treated like that. That is totally different than how I've been treated at MSD; I wonder if your experience was an anomaly or if their customer service has just gone downhill...

Could be a one off experience.. everyone has a bad hair day. Even if that's the case, it's not fun to be the one to draw the CS "short straw".

amdscooter · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2013, 07:00:59 PM »

I installed the MSD 85812 replacement gear on the 8595 today. Pressed the "old" one off.. pressed the new one on. Drilled it & pinned it. The dizzy dropped right in first try. I should mail the one I replaced off to that snotty S.O.B. customer service rep Mr. "core shift" Paul and tell him to stick it in his ear. That should have been the end of it. But nope.. I was begging for punishment. I installed a new MSD Blaster 3 coil to boot. Damn car that was running just hours earlier today simply would not start. Sputterd and banged like 3 of the wires were crossed. I checked the firing order on the cap about 2 dozen times. Disassembled the dizzy and put it back together a few times. About 2 hours and much head scratching later I put the old Petronix FT2 coil back in using the hokey HEI to female coil wire adapter... and it fired up the first try.

While I'm really happy with the advance adjustments on the dizzy.. MSD is on the top of my sh33t list as of this afternoon.

jayb · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2013, 11:31:03 PM »

Sheesh, you are snakebit on MSD parts! You've had more problems in two months than I've had in 20 years. Go figure...

bartlett · « **Reply #40 on:** April 01, 2013, 12:05:12 AM »

wow that sucks ... Msd has been unreal with service for me. I got the wrong wires sent and they sent me a new set just talking to them on the phone ! they sent me a prepaid rma to send there wires back.

sometimes you just get the wrong guy on the wrong day ! thats to bad .... hopefully you got it sorted out now ....

fe66comet · « **Reply #41 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:09:46 AM »

With my cam I had to change mine from the get go, but I said that a couple months ago LOL.

amdscooter · « **Reply #42 on:** April 01, 2013, 11:19:42 PM »

Well if the dizzy does not go completely to pot anytime soon I'll prolly cool off by next winter and might even buy from MSD again.

Bad news is I've been working a lot and I don't think I can return the coil at this point seeing as I bought it some time back. Oh well.. I'll boot another $50 for a good low ohm coil that works. Considering how much I just tossed under the hood it's on the low side price wise. Just miffed at my "luck" with MSD so far. I don't know if I wanna try one of the multi spark controller boxes at this point. Maybe instead I'll just call up a good buddy, have him come over and kick me in the junk a few times. Would not cost me a dime and the end result is similar to my experience after buying MSD.

fe66comet · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2013, 11:47:49 AM »

I have always used 6AL or 6aL boxes never had a problem, the only reason I buy a new one is the old one went with the car LOL. They help with plug fouling at low rpm and gas mileage at cruising speeds.

amdscooter · « **Reply #44 on:** April 14, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »

Quick coil question. I'm not using a 6xx box, just the 8595 ready to run and a coil. If I decide to give another Blaster 2/3 coil a try, should I be using a ballast resistor or straight 12v source?

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