Author Topic: Oil restrictors  (Read 2737 times)

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Gregwill16

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Oil restrictors
« on: December 22, 2020, 07:00:18 PM »
What is the smallest oil restrictor you can get by with? Working on a 427 on a run stand and it was flooding passenger side head. Removed covers to check restrictor size and found 78 jets. Replaced with 60's and changed the rubber valve cover gaskets to cork. Still ran over, so then I seen it was unlevel on the stand. Leveled it up and it did not run over the last run, but it will not always be perfectly level in a car. It has a HP pump, so that is most of the problem I presume, but some push HP pumps. Should I not go any smaller on the restrictors and change the pump or at least the spring in the pump?

blykins

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 07:14:43 PM »
HP or HV? 

Is it also oiling through the pushrods?  Also, what do you mean by "run over"?  Were you running it with the valve covers off?
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Diogenes

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 07:17:20 PM »
I've got 70s in mine and don't have a problem with an HV pump. I'm sure you've checked all the other obvious issues, so I'd be suspecting the oil pump as the cause. 
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Gregwill16

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 08:44:30 PM »
HP pump is what I was told and pegging the gauge backs that up. Valve covers on but leaking out at the rear passenger side. Once I leveled it up a little stopped it, but it shouldn't have that much oil there.

blykins

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 04:55:32 AM »
Make sure the rear drain is clear and make sure it’s not oiling from the pushrods too.  If it’s only doing it on one side I’d lean towards a blockage.
Brent Lykins
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My427stang

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 07:32:58 AM »
Lots of stuff in this question, sorry if my response is a bit of a book

1 - An FE is usually in the car at about 3 degrees nose high (compared to the frame), less the rake of the car, so you are generally going to be level or slightly tail low.  It will change but unless you are building a rock climber, really no reason to worry about temporary conditions
2 - An HP pump, off idle, could easily flood the top end.  To get to the higher pressures an HP allows with the tight relief,  it has to push more volume, although what really happens is it just keeps pushing until the relief pops, even though it hasn't got the tall gears of an HV pump that ends up in a higher quantity of oil up top. 
3 - Not a lot of FEs will idle with the v/c off without dumping oil over that short rail, and I would say less would allow you to come off idle and not make a mess
4 - If the oil isn't hot, it's going to be a bear to get back to the pan
5 - I agree, the pegging of the gauge is indicative of an HP
6 - Depending on head design, returns can sometimes need some help, or can have a glob of silicone in them if overzealous
7 - Of course Brent is correct if you are oiling through pushrods too, you'll never get there.  He watched me empty a pan on a dyno at 3000 rpm cam break in, I likely was pretty comical when I pulled the dipstick, saw it was 3 quarts low, and looked on the floor for a mess.  When there wasn't it took a second for me to figure out what was going on, I was feeding from both the rockers and the pushrods on my truck motor.  What the ironic part is, I popped an oil filter on the same dyno due to a stuck relief, in my mind was, "Oh crap, don't mess up the dyno room again" LOL

So, a couple of things.

- Watch your oil filter.  I was young when I ran an HP in my 390 F100, it worked great and over the years that truck was happy as a clam, however, cold or thick oil can pop a filter.  I ended up running 10w30 back then and over time could sneak up to 10w40.  I try to avoid HP pumps when I can now
- The thinner oil drains back nicely too, might help with just a swap
- I wouldn't restrict more than a 60, and that is even pretty brave to go there, but with the oil you are moving it may work.  Where it gets squirrelly is the rockers farthest from the oil pedestal.  Each rocker is a leak, and if they are factory rockers, the farther you go, especially with wear, you could easily have a dry one if the volume isn't there
- Tins may help, but never hurt, but might change geometry a little if you have already corrected or checked

I would take a thin screwdriver and see if you can work through every return, if you can and see that it's adequate with a flashlight, consider changing the oil to something a little thinner, both to give the oil pump drive a break and help drain.  If hot oil pressure is good, you are good

If you decide to change the pump, get to know hot idle oil pressure first.  If the idle pressure is good, you can go standard, but I tend to like an HV because it gives a little better idle oil pressure.  Either an HV or STD will be less at RPM though, standard 5-10 lbs less than HV and the HV will likely be 20? less than the HP.  If you know bearing clearances in the engine, that would likely make a change in pump easier, but odds are an HV is a cheap fix if you have an HP now

Of course, it could be no issue now either, but that pegged gauge would want me to give the pump drive and the filter a break
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 07:41:25 AM by My427stang »
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Ross

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Gregwill16

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2020, 10:30:39 AM »
Thanks guys! This is all factory 427 LR with exception of pushrods, but they are not oilers.
Brent I was thinking along the same lines on a blockage. I did shine a light back in the drain but should've tried to push a wire through while I had the covers off.
The topend has to come apart anyhow to change over to a 2x4 setup but trying to decide whether I need to tear into the bottom to change the pump or the spring.
Ross that is a good thought on the oil as it has 10w30 VR1, so maybe try the switch 20w50?

oldiron.fe

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2020, 01:34:13 PM »
 old school - still works pretty good late 50/early 60s  cut inch or so off fe hyd push rod w/ ball oil hole  ( make sure it is clean inside) pull rockers push in oil passage under rocker stand worked for 60 years plane to tunnel port motors for me
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RJP

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2020, 02:45:46 PM »
I've run as small as .043" restrictors. These are screw-in plugs I drilled, not the drop-in where some oil is able to go around the restrictor. I installed them in my 66 Galaxie 428 and drove about 400 miles to L.A. When I got to where I was going there was a lifter ticking. Found it burned up the #1 exhaust [adjustable] rocker ball and push rod cup. I guess I went too small. ::) When I got home I redrilled to .062"... end of problems.

RJP

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020, 02:57:45 PM »
Thanks guys! This is all factory 427 LR with exception of pushrods, but they are not oilers.
Brent I was thinking along the same lines on a blockage. I did shine a light back in the drain but should've tried to push a wire through while I had the covers off.
The topend has to come apart anyhow to change over to a 2x4 setup but trying to decide whether I need to tear into the bottom to change the pump or the spring.
Ross that is a good thought on the oil as it has 10w30 VR1, so maybe try the switch 20w50?
While you have the heads off get into the oil returns with a die grinder and open up the area at and around the head bolt. I've found that this area of the drains is restricted at the bolt shank. A little work with a carbide burr will do wonders to help the heads drain.

My427stang

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2020, 04:07:46 PM »
Thanks guys! This is all factory 427 LR with exception of pushrods, but they are not oilers.
Brent I was thinking along the same lines on a blockage. I did shine a light back in the drain but should've tried to push a wire through while I had the covers off.
The topend has to come apart anyhow to change over to a 2x4 setup but trying to decide whether I need to tear into the bottom to change the pump or the spring.
Ross that is a good thought on the oil as it has 10w30 VR1, so maybe try the switch 20w50?

20w50 will be worse, more pressure, less drainback. I would swap to an M57HV but you could try 5w30 or even 5w20 if the pressure stays up.  My guess is if you go any thinner than 10 W 30 you’re gonna lose your idle oil pressure though With the small body pump
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frnkeore

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2020, 06:39:41 PM »
Since it's only one side that is the problem and it's already restricted, my question is, are both plugs in the rocker shaft?
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Henrysnephew

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2020, 06:53:46 PM »
Greg, unless you have absolute confidence in your upper valve train I'd suggest swapping the assemblies side-to-side to see if the "overoiling" follows the valve train.  If it does you likely have excessive clearance (galling, etc) present somewhere in that assembly.  JMO.  Randy M

Gregwill16

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2020, 10:16:53 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys.

Sounds like I am at about the minimum restrictor size.

Ross I got my oils turn around thinking it had 20w50 but was wrong it does already have 10w30 Comp break in oil. So I don't really want to go thinner. Is there in difference in the pumps themselves or can I just change the spring?

Good ideas on looking at the shafts themselves and swapping sides. That makes sense that more leakage on one side points to the rockershaft assembly itself. This is not the stands I plan to leave on it, but glad I did to show me I need to address another issue.

My427stang

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Re: Oil restrictors
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2020, 10:33:10 PM »
Greg, you can swap springs, but you need to destroy the cup plug to replace. It’s generally much easier to swap the pump

That being said, Doug Garifo can sell you it all if you want to swap springs. Either changing it into a std pump or a M57B depending on which spring you choose
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Ross

- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch