The 352's C6AE-R heads were flowed today....

[blykins]

I must say, Joe's on the ball down there.  FedEx delivered the heads yesterday afternoon and he already has them out of the box and "pre-flowed". 

Nothing special was done to these heads....no port work, no bowl work, no throat work, other than what the valve seat cutter did.  Just a typical 45° valve job was completed, bronze guides were installed, and I threw some 2.080/1.600" 5/16" stem stainless valves in there. 

This is how they flow as-is:

.100   70.75
.200  137.60
.300  195.26
.400  220.60
.450  228.35
.500  232.52
.550  238.48
.600  240.27
.650  240.27
.700  240.27

Exhaust

.100   45.50
.200   85.31
.300  118.61
.400  131.61
.450  134.86
.500  137.14
.550  138.44
.600  139.74
.650  139.74
.700  140.06 with short pipe 145.59

I will update this thread once Joe does some porting and updates me.  Thanks Joe!

[GerryP]

That's getting into MR territory with just some slightly bigger valves and a valve job.

[427John]

That's getting into MR territory with just some slightly bigger valves and a valve job.

How would those compare with stock 428CJ heads?

[plovett]

That's getting into MR territory with just some slightly bigger valves and a valve job.

How would those compare with stock 428CJ heads?

Here's what my 428CJ's flowed.  Unported with stock size valves and 3/8" stems.

-------------Ford CJ--------
lift-------intake----exhaust
0.050-----34.0------20.8
0.100-----75.7------46.0
0.200----150.0------84.8
0.300----202.0-----118.1
0.400----228.1-----145.3
0.500----235.8-----162.7
0.600----242.9-----173.9
0.700---------------181.2

pl

[WerbyFord]

Brent,
Were the exhausts 1.60 Camel-Size or 1.65 CJ-size?

From the initial thread:

*Factory C6AE-R heads with 5/16" stem 2.080"/1.650" valves.  PAC small diameter dual valve springs, 270 seat/680 open, with Manley titanium retainers.  A very basic valve job was completed with a nice A-B test in mind in the future.

In any case thanks to you and Joe for getting them flowed so fast, helps keep the conversation hot.

[blykins]

They were 1.600”.

[Cord]

If I’m comparing the flow numbers correctly, I don’t see a massive difference between a cheap 352 head and an expensive cobra jet.  The exhaust side appears to be better on a CJ, but I’d guess porting would fix that. Very interesting!

[blykins]

Here's a before/after of some CJ heads that we did here.  The "before" was as they sat, with factory valves and valve job.  The "after" was Ferrea 2.09/1.65 valves and a good valve job.

Intake:

.1 64
.2 124
.3 182
.4 211
.5 224
.6 231
.7 236

Exhaust:

.1 52
.2 87
.3 118
.4 144
.5 164
.6 174
.7 179

After:

Intake:

.1 80
.2 139
.3 195
.4 230
.5 246
.6 253

Exhaust:

.1 64
.2 100
.3 133
.4 162
.5 181
.6 188

[My427stang]

If I’m comparing the flow numbers correctly, I don’t see a massive difference between a cheap 352 head and an expensive cobra jet.  The exhaust side appears to be better on a CJ, but I’d guess porting would fix that. Very interesting!

You are spot on, the C6AE-R was also called the "poor man's CJ head" because it could be made into something similar. 

Of course it doesn't have the pedigree/numbers for a resto build, but more importantly, the 428 PI didn't use them in late 67 and 68, they used the C7AE-A, and when the CJ came out in 68, the 428s were using a C8AE-H, both miserable heads compared to the C8OE-N and even well below a stock C6AE-R.

Thanks for sharing Brent and Joe, looking forward to the new "afters"

[chilly460]

Love it when the misled say a 400hp 390 or 500hp 428 is just a "cam and intake" swap, with stock heads.  They're not bad at all for OEM, but it's an uphill battle working with stock heads, little work and they really wake up. 

[427John]

A lot of guys I know have always had the perception that stock FE heads were pretty much all the same in the exhaust port when grouped together in the low and high port groups and that most of the differences were in the intake ports,I guess that those CJ flows blows that perception out of the water. 

[garyv]

Brent do you have the flow numbers for those LR heads you had ported a while back?  I'd like to see how they compare
to these heads with some before and after numbers. My guess is unported LR's are on par with the CJ heads. 

garyv

[blykins]

Brent do you have the flow numbers for those LR heads you had ported a while back?  I'd like to see how they compare
to these heads with some before and after numbers. My guess is unported LR's are on par with the CJ heads. 

garyv

Somewhere.

They were C3 LR heads and I think Lawes got about 285-290 out of them.

[Henrysnephew]

I was told many years ago that the CJ head is, with the exception of it's "dual" exhaust side bolt pattern, an EXACT copy of the last iteration of the lo-riser head (C4AE-H).  Randy M

[blykins]

Joe's finished.....

With a 2.080"/1.600" valve pair, we are at:

.100   66.24      53.62
.200  144.22     108.87
.300  208.67     130.00
.400  256.37     168.46
.450  268.29     176.56
.500  271.27     181.42
.550  274.25     184.66
.600  276.04     184.66
.650  280.22     184.66 with 2" pipe, 194.38
.700  282.01
.750  284.99

Joe picked them up 42 cfm on the intake side and 49 cfm on the exhaust side. 

Thank you, Mr. Craine.