FE Head gaskets

[frnkeore]

Ross, this is the combo but, a big part of the reason I started this thread, was to give everyone a accurate data base, for FE head gaskets, so they could make the best selection for their particular builds. I think it's important to know what the actual head gasket capacity is and found that the popular 8554 is near the bottom of desirability for what I'm interested in. I have a pair for sale now

I'd still like to get accurate figures for the Edelbrock gasket. Do you have any personal experience as to how much it compresses?

I would also like to have info on the old steel shim Ford gaskets, both .030 and .015. If anyone has a used one in good shape, I'd pay the shipping to get it so, I can do some measuring.
 

[My427stang]

Frank, I do not remember my Edelbrock experience from 2006, but I didn't use them because they weren't as advertised at .038.  For the life of me I can't remember how thick they were, but were thicker and maybe not an accurate bore size.  Heck I don't remember LOL

[blykins]

Ross, this is the combo but, a big part of the reason I started this thread, was to give everyone a accurate data base, for FE head gaskets, so they could make the best selection for their particular builds. I think it's important to know what the actual head gasket capacity is and found that the popular 8554 is near the bottom of desirability for what I'm interested in. I have a pair for sale now

I'd still like to get accurate figures for the Edelbrock gasket. Do you have any personal experience as to how much it compresses?

I would also like to have info on the old steel shim Ford gaskets, both .030 and .015. If anyone has a used one in good shape, I'd pay the shipping to get it so, I can do some measuring.

It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020". 

I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well.  Like close to .050" or so. 

[frnkeore]

It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020".

What I was going to do with the 8554, was cut the tops .008-.010. The Truck gasket saves me from doing that and having to make soft jaws to hold the pistons.

I'm going to do a Member Project, with this '58 Edsel engine in a week or two. It's in the hot tank right now and the machine work will come very slow.

[blykins]

It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020".

What I was going to do with the 8554, was cut the tops .008-.010. The Truck gasket saves me from doing that and having to make soft jaws to hold the pistons.

I'm going to do a Member Project, with this '58 Edsel engine in a week or two. It's in the hot tank right now and the machine work will come very slow.

Do you have an accurate way of measuring the decks?  I've never seen any FE block clean up at 10.170".  I've seen some be out .020" from end to end of a deck. 

[frnkeore]

I do.

I'll put it on my surface plate, to get the deck height. I'll do that both before and after it's line honed. I have to do the hone, it has one miss matched main cap. I'm hoping not to have to deck it but, we'll see. Each trip to the machine shop, is about a 1.5 to 2 month wait. I'll also verify the piston protrusion.

This will be a very inexpensive but, accurate rebuild. I'll list the the parts and dimensions and mods, as I go.

[blykins]

I do.

I'll put it on my surface plate, to get the deck height. I'll do that both before and after it's line honed. I have to do the hone, it has one miss matched main cap. I'm hoping not to have to deck it but, we'll see. Each trip to the machine shop, is about a 1.5 to 2 month wait. I'll also verify the piston protrusion.

This will be a very inexpensive but, accurate rebuild. I'll list the the parts and dimensions and mods, as I go.

If it's at the machine shop, I'd let them measure the deck height while it's there.   I think there's an extremely good chance that the block will need to be cut.  Also, I've seen factory deck heights be below 10.170" as well.   Even new aftermarket blocks can be all over the place.

If the shop it's at has a BHJ fixture, you can measure the deck height about as close as you can read a micrometer.  The fixture locates off the main/cam tunnels and has a solid plate that is located between the two.  With the included mic, you measure the distance from the deck to the plate. 

I've also seen some shops use a piece of round bar in the main saddle and then use a large mic to measure from the deck to the round bar and then subtract, but it's not accurate, maybe +/-.005-.006".  Remember, with your 352 factory rods, etc., there will be tolerances in part lengths, most likely a lot larger than new aftermarket stuff. 

[frnkeore]

I can measure the deck height, to +/- .00025 on my surface plate, using my height gauge and to .000050 using my Height Master gauge.

That is measured from the deck, to the bearing bore C/L on each side. All measurements with be done to aircraft/areospace manufacturing standards. That is what my business supported as a sub-contractor for Erickson Air Crane.

Yes, I do know about tolerances, the long rod is 6.538/6.542 and i need new bushings in them. I haven't measured the big end yet but, it's 2.5907-2.5915.  My pistons were suppose to have a CH of 1.660 but, they actually are 1.6575.

Thanks for the tips.

[blykins]

I can measure the deck height, to +/- .00025 on my surface plate, using my height gauge and to .000050 using my Height Master gauge.

That is measured from the deck, to the bearing bore C/L on each side. All measurements with be done to aircraft/areospace manufacturing standards. That is what my business supported as a sub-contractor for Erickson Air Crane.

Yes, I do know about tolerances, the long rod is 6.538/6.542 and i need new bushings in them. I haven't measured the big end yet but, it's 2.5907-2.5915.  My pistons were suppose to have a CH of 1.660 but, they actually are 1.6575.

Thanks for the tips.

Here's a couple of things that may bite you there:

1.  The deck will not be flat and square, so you're holding a piece that's not straight/flat up to a machined surface.  You can make a pass on the deck to have a machined surface against a machined surface, but then how much do you take off??  There's nothing straight/square/flat about a factory FE block and all 4 corners have the potential to be all whopper jawed, or cattywampassed, whichever term you prefer.

2.  The deck surfaces are out front to back (alternator to bellhousing) and are also out side to side (intake to exhaust).   I assume if you're measuring to the housing bore, you're planning on using a machined piece in the bore so that you can measure to the outside diameter of it, then subtract to get to the centerline, but you also need to be measuring to the intake and exhaust sides of the of deck and you can't do that reliably because only the centerpoint of the deck is inline with the centerline of the crankshaft.   

[My427stang]

Frank, good luck, and in the end, if nothing hits, life is good enough to run.  However, like Brent, I have never seen a flat or square FE block at 10.170.  The good thing is, if you think you are an an average 10.170 with a plate with .041 clearance, you probably have .004-.005 to play with and it likely will only affect gasket crush along the run. not interference

FWIW, on a stock block, and Brent and I see the same, I find dips in the middle, canted every which way, and often the surface is a sine wave, low at the water ports, climbs to 1/2 or 5/6, drops away again, then climbs and dips.... then picture that whole wave twisted to boot.

I actually had one budget rebuild that a machinist (I no longer use for various reasons) called "good" ...bolted it up and water poured out of the head gasket at #5 above the PS pump during initial  fill.  It wasn't as crooked as you would think, but the uncut deck dropped away enough that it didn't seal.  I think he should have caught it, and rarely do I not cut (almost never now) but he claimed it just dropped away in a small area and he missed it.  Yes, he did LOL and I didn't back him up either and wasted a LOT of time

[frnkeore]

This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.

I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.

I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:

I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well.  Like close to .050" or so.

[blykins]

This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.

I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.

I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:

I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well.  Like close to .050" or so.

I looked for one, Frank, and I don't have one.  I do remember it was nowhere close to being .038" though. 

There aren't a lot of topics about head gaskets because the 1020 and 8554 serve most purposes.  In extreme applications, or funky thicknesses, the Cometics are what most guys reach for.   My advice is to always get the block fully machined, measure parts, and then step back to see what gaskets are needed.  It usually falls around the 1020 or 8554. 

In your scenario, my guess is that the block will need whacked at least .010" if not more and you'll need something besides a .060" gasket. 

[frnkeore]

It looks to me that the Clevite 3389 .050 x 4.33 12.065cc or Fel-Pro 8045 PT .051 x 4.200 not round est 11.86cc might be a better choice if your trying for as much compression as possible with a .050 gasket.

Have you tried either of them?

[blykins]

It looks to me that the Clevite 3389 .050 x 4.33 12.065cc or Fel-Pro 8045 PT .051 x 4.200 not round est 11.86cc might be a better choice if your trying for as much compression as possible with a .050 gasket.

Have you tried either of them?

No sir, sure haven't.

Also, the difference between a 4.200 x .050" and a 4.350 x .050" is only .07 of a compression point.  Not .7, but .07.  The gasket bore just doesn't make any difference.

I did look up the .060" felpro gasket and I think it's being done away with.  I know the 1020 and the 8554 are always available. 

[My427stang]

This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.

I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.

I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:

I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well.  Like close to .050" or so.

Well we all tend to comment on what we have seen in the past, and yours rang a few bells.  That being said, I haven't strayed far from the Felpro gaskets.  Reliable and easy on the street builds I do.  I also haven't had a head gasket issue if the deck was straight, even with Enginetech ultra-cheapos (only used once, farm truck valve job, supplied by owner, didn't care thickness)

Rip open that wallet Frank, buy a pile from Rock Auto and start measuring!