Author Topic: Holley acc pump  (Read 3339 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Holley acc pump
« on: November 27, 2020, 08:27:11 PM »
Doing some work on my little 67 (hyd roller 289)...I have a 3310-11 carb on it...I have a bad flat spot right away..Last year i changed the shooter from a 25 to a 31 and put the cam on #2..Not much of a difference...Weather does not permit me to road test it but I am going over what I did..Today i noticed it has a green cam...Thats pretty big ..I have lots of Holley books going back to the 80's..No where can i find reference to what color cams the 3310 came with..Shooters yes but not cams..Thinking the big cam and the shooter are a little much..I have a few other 3310's and i checked them.One has a brown cam and one has a white..I found a little bit of free play in the linkage but it was very little.

Does any one have a newer 3310 they can check the cam color on...Or any 3310...Thinking the green cam is wrong (i didnt put it in) and I need to go back and start over..
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 09:49:51 PM »
My list doesn't show pump cams, but I would think it comes with a pink cam.  Maybe a white, but in either case, your green cam should start sooner and is a reasonable quick cam

Maybe check the umbrella in the bowl, or check adjustment at WOT, might be a little loose.

That being said, I have thrown a blue cam in a 3310, sort of a sledghammer to hide a transition problem, but they can work, they come in hard and a lot of volume

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 10:29:53 PM »
I found that chart today..Thinking I may be dumping too much in .The flat spot is always there..My thought was to put a red or blue cam in (1) and put the 25 shooter back in...

I got the carb new and its only got 600 miles on it..The green cam seems a little agressive for a universal carb..

Thanks
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2020, 09:14:32 AM »
Original downleg 3310 came with white cam with .025 nozzle.


My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2020, 12:00:27 PM »
Drew may be able to comment on the internals, but I have fought more modern Holley dead spots and ended up swapping to an early style low-IFR metering block.  Really bad in Street Avengers and HPs, so no reason a modern 3310 wouldn't follow the weirdness LOL

Generally, the hesitation isn't from too much fuel, I think it's actually from later kill bleeds in the main circuit that delay the mains coming on line making transition fuel run out.  The IFR location may not affect it, but the low IFR blocks generally don't have the same bleed/emulsion design in the main well

As far as the pump, I like the .025 shot better, it will last longer, I am not afraid of the green cam, but I think your red would be fine too.  However, I probably would see if I had room to raise float level a bit to get the head pressure at the boosters up a bit.  I would also be 100% sure it is using the full stroke, meaning set the accel pump for .015 clearance at WOT throttle, which generally means there is a little preload on the spring at closed throttle

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 12:47:58 PM »
Thanks Guys...going to switch the cam and shooter today...I have a 3310 780 here that is missing its base plate..Any gain or advantage in swapping its primary metering block into the new carb..
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 07:25:41 PM »
Downleg 3310 block works well for a reason:

Large .035 ifr, also large .076 idle air bleed in main body.
If you notice the main well has a plug very low and deep into the well.
Smaller well=earlier booster.

Tossing an early 3310 block on a later 3310 will make a really rich idle.
Better to just use early 3310 and swap baseplates.

All this said, I’d wager 50% of the hammer it and get a bog issues are not carb related.

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2020, 07:50:19 PM »
I dont need it rich at a idle....PCV is not hooked up so its rich enough at idle...
Drew...elaborate...what are you thinking ????
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2020, 09:21:09 PM »
I have to start over...I changed the squirter and the shooter.Then set the linkage only to find out the pump is petrified...Surprised how quick that happened .I am in the middle of tearing the carb apart..
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2020, 03:35:13 PM »
Downleg 3310 block works well for a reason:

Large .035 ifr, also large .076 idle air bleed in main body.
If you notice the main well has a plug very low and deep into the well.
Smaller well=earlier booster.

Tossing an early 3310 block on a later 3310 will make a really rich idle.
Better to just use early 3310 and swap baseplates.


Ugh large IFR with slow response, that doesn't sound good to me....however, I wouldn't do a simple swap anyway, make the IFR and IAB deliver the least amount of fuel you while meeting the transition to the main circuit.  If anyone thought I would swap and pray, I SURE don't advocate that, but the later main circuits, IMHO associated with the high IFR, seem to be less responsive and not correctable with HSAB alone.

I have to start over...I changed the squirter and the shooter.Then set the linkage only to find out the pump is petrified...Surprised how quick that happened .I am in the middle of tearing the carb apart..

LOL, at least you may have a clear reason now.  Fixing a broken accel pump is much more desirable than trying to tune around a bad one :)






---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2020, 07:48:11 PM »
Ifr being high has nothing to do with mains Or hsab.
The negative of a high ifr is getting air behind it.
On a stock engine?  Maybe no biggie.
With a performance cam, the oscillatory flow can compress the air....
Submerged fuel restrictions are free from instability. Not so with ones that are exposed to air.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 08:34:02 PM »
Ifr being high has nothing to do with mains Or hsab.
The negative of a high ifr is getting air behind it.
On a stock engine?  Maybe no biggie.
With a performance cam, the oscillatory flow can compress the air....
Submerged fuel restrictions are free from instability. Not so with ones that are exposed to air.

Drew, read my previous posts slowly.....LOL

I said the high or low IFR isn't the reason, but the low IFR/early blocks seemed to be missing main well kill bleeds in many cases when compared to modern carbs, and IMHO that makes the later carbs not work as well.  The IFR isn't doing it, it's just a design trend that I have seen happen about the same time

I prefer the low IFR for transition feed over a high one unrelated to the discussion of the mains slow to come on line,  because I also think that with heat they behave differently when submerged versus up top

My point on the HSAB is that if the main supply is slow you can't just shrink a HSAB to make them come in faster and still have the fuel curve right, and I also don't like throwing a ton of IFR fuel at the transition circuit to make up for lazy main circuit, never mind drenching it in pump fuel, although nobody has said to do that

Back to the original thing I said, often an early 1850, 3310, you name it, low IFR metering block can become magical on a later SA or HP series by just matching the new carb's PVCR, IFR and jets, maybe this more modern 3310 is the same, but my newest one is a -4.   I blame it on main well design, I don't know why they changed designs so much (along with the IFR) but they did, often with very few other changes.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 08:38:07 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2020, 10:19:20 PM »
No need to reread your post, I was not addressing you.


shady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2020, 09:06:34 AM »
when my 1850 pump was frozen, it was because the the check valve ball bearing under the squirter was varnished and stuck closed.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
2021 FERR cool FE Winner
2022 FERR cool FE Winner
2023 FERR cool FE Winner

427Fastback

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
    • View Profile
Re: Holley acc pump
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 04:30:24 PM »
Having a problem finding a 135-10 diaphram..I have rubber ones but it didnt last...I havent found one here (BC Canada) Summitt has none.Jegs have them but want $25 (US) to ship them...Amazon has some for some reason they wont ship them across the border...I am in no panic...I will find one.
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up