Author Topic: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs  (Read 2280 times)

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rcianci

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1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« on: November 26, 2020, 05:04:26 PM »
Bought a 1968 428 long block, moderate build.Previous owner set it to above noted specs using msd 8595 which i will be using as well.Searched and cant find the specs and previous owner cant remember.Anyone? Bueller? Thx. Bob.

GerryP

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2020, 08:07:35 PM »
Without knowing anything about the engine other than it has two carburetors, you can do a baseline of 12 degrees BTDC initial, 10 degrees vacuum advance, 38 degrees BTDC total.  In reality, your initial might work best anywhere from 6 to 20 degrees, with 4 to 16 degrees vacuum, and up to 42 degrees total.  Total advance is your initial plus your centrifugal advance, minus vacuum advance.  It may run better with manifold vacuum or ported vacuum.  A lot of factors go into ignition timing like compression, cam, engine condition, coolant temp, carburetor tuning, fuel specifications, transmission, final drive, vehicle weight, altitude, and probably a dozen other side elements.  You really have to tune to what the engine likes.  Another element that is easy to tune on an MSD is the ignition advance curve.  That one is a lot more difficult because you have to understand how the springs work and how they shape the advance curve and how that affects engine performance.  I like a curve few here would agree with, but that's how my tune up works for me.  Go slow, read and understand, experiment.  Always have a documented baseline as a place to get back to when things turn to crap.  Always document your changes and make only one change at a time.  Evaluate the affects of that single change.  When tuning, always get the ignition dialed in before you start fiddling with the carburetor.  A strong ignition will crutch a weak carburetor.  A strong carburetor will not crutch a weak ignition. 

cleandan

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 09:17:29 PM »
I have found iron head FE's like total timing in the 34*-36* range as a general good starting place.
Set your limiter bushings to achieve 34*-36* total and begin timing the rest from there.

You will go forth and back getting things correct.

If you have a mild to moderate cam (more than stock, but not yet up to a radical idle) you will probably find the engine likes more initial timing, with less mechanical advance.

The advance curve will depend on many things, rear end gearing, transmission gearing, and vehicle weight being a few that make a big difference.

For instance, the same hotted up 428 placed in a 64' Falcon with 4.88:1 gears and a 4 spd can use a really fast curve, as opposed to a slower curve when that engine is in an otherwise stock 73' F100 with a C6 and 3.00:1 gears.

Just for fun try 16* initial, 35* total, (Black bushing) with both springs being light blue and tune the vac advance with driving characteristics.


« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 09:20:13 PM by cleandan »

Joe-JDC

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 10:04:03 PM »
Just about any iron head FE will run best at 38* total timing, and many will run even better with good fuel and 41-42* actual total timing mechanical.  Anything less will be down on power and sluggish.  Initial depends on automatic, stick, power options, but usually idles best with at least 12* BTDC.  Fuel, compression ratio, camshaft specifications, will make a difference, but for performance, 38* is where I start my tuning.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

cammerfe

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 11:27:17 PM »
The old 427 rule was to put the advance in the 10 degree end for a total of 20, and dial in 18 degrees of initial. Use good gas. The pump jockey in the old Sunoco station where I hung out put 190 in once because he wasn't thinking and when I left, I went up Plymouth Road just far enough to get the low-grade stuff up to the carbs when I put my foot in it. The immediate detonation collapsed the ring lands on one piston before I got my foot off the gas. The pinched rings caused a giant burned-oil fog out the back and I had to pull a head and replace the piston. :(

KS

cjshaker

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 10:39:21 AM »
Just about any iron head FE will run best at 38* total timing, and many will run even better with good fuel and 41-42* actual total timing mechanical.  Anything less will be down on power and sluggish.  Initial depends on automatic, stick, power options, but usually idles best with at least 12* BTDC.  Fuel, compression ratio, camshaft specifications, will make a difference, but for performance, 38* is where I start my tuning.  Joe-JDC

Ditto. Anything below 38* is going to be killing power pretty bad. Most would prefer at least 40*, but that can start to get dicey depending on several factors. My 427 with factory MR heads likes 42* for maximum power, but I have to have good gas in it then. Even 93 octane will cause me some issues at 42*, so I have to mix it or bump the timing back. At 38*, I'm okay with 93.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

1964Fastback

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Re: 1965 427 with two 4s timing specs
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 11:21:54 AM »
Not to disagree, just to answer the original question, here's a free link to the 1965 shop manual:

http://oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Ford/1965/FordMercuryShopManual/index.html

The pages at the end of chapter 9 give the initial timing specs. for the 427 8V (8 degrees BTDC), and the advance characteristics of the mechanical advance distributor.  Remember the advance specs. are in distributor degrees and RPMs.

Pat
1964 Galaxie 500 2 dr Fastback, 390, 4 speed, Indianapolis Indiana