Epoxy in cylinder heads and intake manifolds using oxiginated fuels.

[mtburger]

Hello All.

I have read the tunnel port thread and I have a couple questions for the group.

I had a a big Cleveland built with a lot of work done, think a 70's Pro Stock Roush, Glidden kind of thing. It is a healthy piece.

It has a Bud Moore Maxi Box intake that has had the bottom of the ports epoxied up (about 6 inches into) the ports to match heads that have the old school Roush aluminum tongues installed.

The tongues are held in place with a button head through the bottom on the intake port of the head, tapped into the tongues, and Miller Stephenson epoxy.

I have been told not to use any ethanol / oxygenated fuels as it eats away and lifts out the epoxy.

My question is, can or should I use this on the street with ethanol and will it erode and lift out the epoxy unless I use non oxygenated fuels.

Even if I use good fuel, how long would you expect the epoxy to retain its shape and integrity?

I have resisted using the engine at all to this point, but I and am now considering removing the Box intake and going forward with another intake that has no epoxy and not worrying about the tongues.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks, Mike H.

[machoneman]

Cool engine combo for sure.

I'd run it one season and then yank the intake for a check. Or, maybe after so many hours.

Btw, I think a lot of heating/cooling cycles would be of a greater concern than any fuel type.

[winr1]

 Bucees 15 miles from me has no ethanol 92 grade

They are 15 miles from Galveston Isle, lots of folks fuel their boats up there

Seems you canna sell non ethanol in the city but can if in the county between cities

Just a thought




Ricky.

[Falcon67]

Jr Dragster engines use Splash Zone compound in some cases for intake shaping - and the 9.0 and faster cars all run methanol.  I imagine there is some deterioration over time, but with the 10% at the pump I;d not be too concerned about it.  My 351C uses Parker port tongues that were installed with Splash Zone.  They have been in use for 20 years running pump fuel and sometimes straight VP, no noted issues.  Offered FWIW

[mtburger]

Thanks for the replied guys, I do appreciate it.

I have seen some pictures of parts that do not look good where it basically lifted out, or was eaten away, and that is what has prevented me from installing this engine.

I live in MA, and there are no gas stations in my area the have non-oxygenated fuel at the pumps.

This is the product I used, the data sheet says nothing about ethanol.

https://miller-stephenson.com/product/ms-907-two-part-epoxy-adhesive/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt-mPy9Od7AIVAdbACh2YnwPPEAAYAiAAEgKGRPD_BwE

Mike H.

[winr1]

  ... by the way ... that is one cool looking mill



Ricky.

[Tommy-T]

My M/T cross ram has the bottom of the ports filled to match a medium riser style cylinder head. It goes about 3" up into the intake manifold. I ran it on my '56 T-Bird for a few years and am going to run it again with 4 carbs on my Comet.
Lots of street miles and no sign of coming off or eroding using California "moonshine" enriched gas. I believe it's the Moroso 2 part epoxy.

[cjshaker]

It's my understanding that it's important to "anchor" the epoxy, by having pins or some sort of pieces attached to the port for the epoxy to grab on to, to keep it from getting sucked into a cylinder. Guys have different ways of doing it, but according to what I've seen, most good builds will do this to help keep the epoxy in place. It's also my understanding (talking to guys who have worked with the stuff pretty regularly) that it is generally considered a non-permanent deal, that the epoxy will eventually start to lift and deteriorate over time and must be replaced or re-done. Time is based on usage.

I have an intake in the making that will use epoxy, and I've been told to just keep an eye on it. Generally, 5-10 years of good use. Give or take based on how it's used. Not a problem for me since the engine will get checked every couple of years.

[Falcon67]

>It's my understanding that it's important to "anchor" the epoxy, by having pins or some sort of pieces attached to the port for the epoxy to grab on to,

This.  The intake ports on these 4V heads was made ruff with 80 grit, then the tongues clamped in place.  Drilled through the port bottom and tapped for (IIRC) an 10-24 socket head cap screw.  Applied Splash Zone to the port, installed tongues, let it set up, then finish ported.  The tongues in a 351C 4V port reduce the port size from 260 to abot 220 cc.  Note, I'm running straight methanol in the motor now.  If filling a port bottom with a lot of epoxy, a small screw or two plus a ruff surface would be the way to go IMHO.

[SSdynosaur]

Running NHRA Super Stock in the early/mid 70's with a hi-riser combination, rules prevented any modifications to the cylinder heads but you could run any intake manifold or modify a stock manifold as long as the carbs were oriented approximately the same as OEM. A fellow racer bought a SuperFlow 110 flow bench and simply trying off-the-wall modifications we mostly, accidentally, discovered that the cylinder head intake flow rate went up significantly when you built a 3/4x3/4 tapered epoxy filler (Moroso A-B) in corner of the manifold runner floor/vertical wall. The taper started from nothing and over about 3 inches grew to the triangular 3/4x3/4 "corner filler". Doubting that 8 chunks of epoxy that size would stay in place very long, I drilled and tapped 10-24 holes through the floors of the ports and installed 2 pan-head screws in each port to act as anchors, leaving the screw heads a ¼ to ⅜ proud, prior to installing the epoxy. I ran the manifold for several years and never lost a single bit of the epoxy fillers.