Author Topic: Build Literature  (Read 1187 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HarleyJack17

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2020, 04:38:18 PM »
The books recommended are good sources. What I used along with help from the forum.  The money invested it may not be a bad idea, my opinion, to go through Brent, Blair, Ross, or Barry at least on the short block.  To me, the short block is where most errors will arise, in a very general sense.  Mistakes can be made on the top end certainly, but most guys tend to be familiar with that and there tends to be more leeway.
 
Barry's book was a good help to me along with this forum and net.  I am meticulous but still made some mistakes that cost me, but not to the extent of blown motor, and it was my first engine ever to build.  When using modern parts, it is paramount you know the little details and changes so you do it right.  A build check list with notes is your friend!

My guess, and it is purely a guess, is either a plugged feed in the crank or maybe a crack in the journal.  A crack in the main feed should have shown on bearing wear.  Odd those two would be the only ones that showed a lack of oil unless the tolerances were way off on just two.  A full system of low oil volume "should" have shown up on other parts imo.  Low pressure sounds like an internal leak, unless it was routed wrong but again very odd only these two are effected. The psi you listed is low for a full on run for sure. 
Sadly on a self destruct it can be tough, or impossible, to find the issue. Just really depends on what evidence is still left.

Which piston was missing material on the wrist pin? Sounds odd it would end up wedged but a lot can happen with parts moving around and break rapidly, or flipping a motor on a stand.

Best of luck. Never a good day when a new build goes south.
 

Coubra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2020, 05:47:38 PM »
Thanks for the replies & info.

The remote filter/cooler install was carefully done and the flow paths triple checked.  Just went out to the car and checked again - routing is good.

Thrust bearing looks good too.

Next build: 
Will use a Precision Oil Pump blueprinted HV pump. 
Will open up the oil pump route from the pump to the filter adapter.  Any specific do's and don'ts with this?
Will restrict rocker oil feed on Edelbrock heads with Precision Oil Pump restrictors.  Any specific do's and don'ts with this?
Will use hydraulic roller lifters again and won't make any lifter bore modifications.
Will use the remote oil filter/cooler setup again - routing will again be checked per Canton instructions.
Will reuse repaired Canton Road Race Series 15-874 oil pan.  Had used screened windage tray before - would louvered be better for my use?
Will reuse mechanical and electric oil pressure gauges.  (Electric gauge is part of the dash setup I'm using.)
Will probably use a Scat stroker rotating assembly. 
    Optimal main bearing clearance? 
    Optimal rod bearing clearance? 
    Optimal thrust bearing clearance with standard transmission and street/autocross/road race application? 
    Optimal bearing manufacturer/material?
Will replicate camshaft specs and reuse other induction/exhaust/accessory drive/etc components. 

This is not intended to be a max performance setup, I don't have buckets of money to throw at it, will be street driven with operational HVAC, and will go to my daughter when I check out.

cjshaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2020, 07:19:06 AM »
Doug - I'm reading 35 psi while running at speed.  OP also noted that oil pressure had dropped after his remote filter install...

Bill, with all due respect, 35 psi at speed is low. Too low, in my opinion. I don't know where you're reading pressure, but I don't know of anyone that thinks 35 is enough pressure at a higher RPM. But like I said, it's depending on where the pressure is read. If you read 35 psi at the beginning of an oiling system, then the pressure at the end of the system is going to be considerably less. 35 psi at the end of the system may be acceptable, but you're likely closer to 55+ at the beginning. We've had discussions of pressure drops throughout oiling systems.

    Any time a cooler/extra filter(s), plumbing is added there is increased restriction and oil pressure drops accordingly . You need a 427 style pump with a 100 psi relief spring ( or more) so the "net" pressure after the cooler/filter stuff is 65-70 at the gauge. Volume isn't the issue.
Taking out 2&6 is a little odd in that oil starvation usually shows up in 1&5. Welding the rods to the crank will destroy ANY rod regardless of origin. That happened first here. Increased stroke increases the need for oil pressure as well.
    Randy

Randy, whether or not pressure drops with increased resistance depends on where the pressure reading takes place. If it's before the restriction, then pressure will increase. If it's after the resistance, then pressure will drop. More resistance equals more pressure, less resistance equals less pressure. Those are basics of hydraulics. Not trying to be argumentative, but some clarification on where the OP is taking readings, and at what RPM, would be very helpful here.

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, '65 427 MR, 2x4, 4-spd, 4.30 Locker
2 1965 Galaxies with 390s
1970 F-350 390
1958 Ford Ranch Wagon 390

WConley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • No longer walking funny!
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2020, 09:38:09 AM »
Doug - I'm reading 35 psi while running at speed.  OP also noted that oil pressure had dropped after his remote filter install...

Bill, with all due respect, 35 psi at speed is low. Too low, in my opinion. I don't know where you're reading pressure, but I don't know of anyone that thinks 35 is enough pressure at a higher RPM. But like I said, it's depending on where the pressure is read. If you read 35 psi at the beginning of an oiling system, then the pressure at the end of the system is going to be considerably less. 35 psi at the end of the system may be acceptable, but you're likely closer to 55+ at the beginning. We've had discussions of pressure drops throughout oiling systems.


Hi Doug - Sorry for the confusion.  My wording should have been, "I'm reading in the OP's post that he was getting 35 psi while running at speed."  Heck yeah - I agree that 35 psi is WAY too low when you're giving it the beans!  You need lots of oil flow to carry heat away from those bearings.  We're on the same page for sure!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

gt350hr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2020, 10:53:34 AM »
   Doug ,
      I fully agree on the pressure/ resistance deal. "Oil pressure" is actually a reading of "back pressure" or what "won't" go into the engine LOL.  My point is "any" time you make a turn with oil ( or fluid for that matter) there is a pressure loss ( yes "after the turn" or cooler/filter). This is why AN fittings have progressed from harsh 90*machined "elbows"  to larger "radius" style. Hose length is another factor. 35 psi "after" the cooler , at point of entry to the engine IS too little , especially on an FE. We ALL agree on that !!!
    Randy

wayne

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2020, 07:14:56 PM »
If it was mine the remote oil filter set up would not go back on. What kind of oil did you have. I think Jays or Barrys book tells oil pressure front and rear is 20 lbs different so you need all you can get.

gt350hr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2020, 09:45:58 AM »
+1 I have seen bigger variations than that on a 351C ( which has front and rear pressure tap locations stock)

fryedaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
    • View Profile
Re: Build Literature
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2020, 01:15:34 PM »
I lost 10 psi when i took my stock rocker arm setup off an installed harland sharp complete setup,rockers,shafts and end stands.when i fired it up with stock rockers it went straight to 80 and dropped to 75 after running a few minutes,now with the hs setup it goes to 70 for a minute then drops to 60s while driving and 25-30 at idle. the stock setup never dropped below 45-50 even at idle.he might of lost 10-20 with the hs and 10-20 with the re-locator and cooler.