Author Topic: SBF Dry Sump  (Read 4797 times)

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frnkeore

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SBF Dry Sump
« on: August 01, 2020, 12:46:28 PM »
I mentioned in the H&M head thread, that I had a H&M dry sump, with Randy's help, I was able to get to a a guy, named Jay Cushman, that collects, the extremely rare and high end Ford parts. He bought out all of Dan Gurney's Ford engine stock, as well as a lot of Shelby's. He has or has had, most everything that you've ever heard of, that was experimental or used in a Ford, race program.

He has identified my dry sump, as one that was funded by Ford and could have been contracted out by H&M, Shelby or Gurney. I was told that it came from H&M but, they sold a lot of parts and could have got it from one of the other two sources. That info, come from the fact, that it has a ASK prefix, to it's part number.

I'm a areospace machinist of more than 45 years and the quality is top notch for the time that it was made (65-68 era). It's a gear pump but, uses much larger gears than a SBC or BBC, as most used at that time, such as Weaver. As you can see it bolts to the original oil pump location and is entirely, self contained, with just one hose in and one out, using non AN, bulkhead fittings.

I can't use it on my current 306, because I'm using a girdle on it

Added:
As you can see, there are yellow marks, they are paint and look like a stencil made them. I can't quite make out the shape but, they are rectangular. I think they are acceptance marks, that would be applied after inspection.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 01:20:47 PM by frnkeore »
Frank

cammerfe

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 10:48:29 PM »
Many years  ago, I got a Ford dry sump for a 494 Can-Am motor from Jack Roush. It was a close copy of the ones FoMoCo guys constructed for the 427 LeMans cars. The pressure pump was of a design much like the production pumps and fit into the stock location, although being of a somewhat larger gearoter design. The scavenge section was all gears and fit into a dedicated section in the front of the cast sump. Being quite shallow, it made possible a lower location in the chassis.

I put it into my 466 SCJ Pinto. When the car was stolen, the dry-sump was gone also.

KS

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 12:39:04 AM »
Do you remember if it had a ASK number on it.

Besides being funded by Ford, the ASK means that it was also engineered by Ford, to be manufactured by a outside source.
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 05:30:32 AM »
I think the dry sump system would be more benefit to you than the main girdle, especially on a short stroke engine.  I'm not a fan of main girdles, I don't think they help anything, unless they're made out of aluminum and can somehow absorb harmonics.   I do a lot of higher hp, stock block 289/302/331/347 engines and opt to not run a girdle on most.   If the block is gonna split in half, a girdle won't stop it. 

If that dry sump system would pull vacuum, I think it would be more help than the girdle.  With only one pickup, it may be marginable at best though, as most true dry sump systems will scavenge from at least 2-3 different spots, rather than just one fixed point that may/may not be in the level of oil that's collecting. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:40:39 AM by blykins »
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Joe-JDC

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 09:04:57 AM »
I have to disagree on the aluminum girdles.  They expand at a different rate than iron or steel, and it has been attributed to the HO blocks that split down the middle when they reached a certain horsepower level.  No one tells about that side of the blocks splitting.  Just my experience from local racers.  Don't use an aluminum girdle.  Joe-JDC
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blykins

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 09:25:17 AM »
I have to disagree on the aluminum girdles.  They expand at a different rate than iron or steel, and it has been attributed to the HO blocks that split down the middle when they reached a certain horsepower level.  No one tells about that side of the blocks splitting.  Just my experience from local racers.  Don't use an aluminum girdle.  Joe-JDC

I don't like girdles period, but a local guy runs one of my 347's with a DSS aluminum girdle.  He wanted to use it, not my choice, but it's been on a 550 hp 1985 5.0 block for the past 10 years.  Runs 10.90's.   Launches at 5500, shifts at 7000. 

The aluminum stuff has been known to absorb harmonics.  Lots of big block Mopar guys will only run aluminum main caps for that reason. 

If I had my way, all main cap girdles would go away, but this particular one has lived just fine for the past decade.   I think it varies from block to block on when they will split, doesn't matter what's holding the caps together.   Older blocks have a lot better chance of making horsepower without one....early 289/302/Mexican 302 blocks were the stoutest, especially the ones with wider caps.  You can tell the newer blocks are just thinner and wimpier.
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Joe-JDC

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 10:58:04 AM »
He is at the threshold of the weakness of the HO block.  Like I mentioned in another post, we raced a stock HO shortblock with ported E-7 heads, ported stock EFI intake and plenum for years and ran 10.75 @ 141 with 8 psi boost in 91 LX Coupe with 5 speed.  Had a chip that allowed the engine to turn 7200 rpm with that stock shortblock.  Just ran the lifters down to within a few thousandths of collapse, and let it rip.  MY '88 GT with the 376W with 14 psi ran 9.72 @ 143 with full accessories, AC, PS, completely stock interior, etc.   When folks started putting the aluminum girdle on them, they started splitting the blocks at that power level.  The aluminum actually expanded the main studs, not stabilize them.  JME, Joe-JDC 
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Rory428

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 11:25:30 AM »
I have to disagree on the aluminum girdles.  They expand at a different rate than iron or steel, and it has been attributed to the HO blocks that split down the middle when they reached a certain horsepower level.  No one tells about that side of the blocks splitting.  Just my experience from local racers.  Don't use an aluminum girdle.  Joe-JD

I don't like girdles period, but a local guy runs one of my 347's with a DSS aluminum girdle.  He wanted to use it, not my choice, but it's been on a 550 hp 1985 5.0 block for the past 10 years.  Runs 10.90's.   Launches at 5500, shifts at 7000. 

The aluminum stuff has been known to absorb harmonics.  Lots of big block Mopar guys will only run aluminum main caps for that reason. 

If I had my way, all main cap girdles would go away, but this particular one has lived just fine for the past decade.   I think it varies from block to block on when they will split, doesn't matter what's holding the caps together.   Older blocks have a lot better chance of making horsepower without one....early 289/302/Mexican 302 blocks were the stoutest, especially the ones with wider caps.  You can tell the newer blocks are just thinner and wimpier.
Brent, what type of car is this 550 HP 347 in? It would seem to me, unless its a 4000 pound car, or the driver/car setup etc is way out of whack, a 3000-3200 car with 550 HP should run a lot quicker that 10.90s in the 1/4 mile. Or at least the potential is there
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
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blykins

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 12:20:45 PM »
I have to disagree on the aluminum girdles.  They expand at a different rate than iron or steel, and it has been attributed to the HO blocks that split down the middle when they reached a certain horsepower level.  No one tells about that side of the blocks splitting.  Just my experience from local racers.  Don't use an aluminum girdle.  Joe-JD

I don't like girdles period, but a local guy runs one of my 347's with a DSS aluminum girdle.  He wanted to use it, not my choice, but it's been on a 550 hp 1985 5.0 block for the past 10 years.  Runs 10.90's.   Launches at 5500, shifts at 7000. 

The aluminum stuff has been known to absorb harmonics.  Lots of big block Mopar guys will only run aluminum main caps for that reason. 

If I had my way, all main cap girdles would go away, but this particular one has lived just fine for the past decade.   I think it varies from block to block on when they will split, doesn't matter what's holding the caps together.   Older blocks have a lot better chance of making horsepower without one....early 289/302/Mexican 302 blocks were the stoutest, especially the ones with wider caps.  You can tell the newer blocks are just thinner and wimpier.
Brent, what type of car is this 550 HP 347 in? It would seem to me, unless its a 4000 pound car, or the driver/car setup etc is way out of whack, a 3000-3200 car with 550 HP should run a lot quicker that 10.90s in the 1/4 mile. Or at least the potential is there

Rory, he normally runs the 7.50 1/8th mile index here.  The car has ran a 6.80 playing around.  I threw a rough 1/8 mile to 1/4 mile conversion in there since most guys aren't familiar with 1/8 mile times.  Now that I look at it closer, a 6.80 in the 1/8 converts to around 10.60's, so you were correct.

It's a Fox Mustang, 4.56 gear, with a TKO 500.   He runs one of the adjustable carb spacers  (sorta like a restrictor plate) and has it choked down to the smallest orifices that you can buy for it to run his class.

Joe, he's the only one of my guys running a main cap girdle but that engine has ran like clockwork for the last 10 years.  I freshened it up once when he lost a power valve and ran it like that for a while.  No fretting on the caps or any issues. 

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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 12:29:05 PM »
My girdle is a little different. I made stand offs out 2.375, from the main CL and pre-load .005 at each of those stand off.
Frank

blykins

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 12:41:25 PM »
My girdle is a little different. I made stand offs out 2.375, from the main CL and pre-load .005 at each of those stand off.

That's an awfully thin part of the main webbing to be adding extra holes and are those extra holes in the tops of the main caps too???   I think I'd still rather have that dry sump setup.  If it actually made any vacuum, you'd be better off with that.  If a block is going to split, there aren't any girdles that will keep it from happening.  I'll try to find it, but there's a picture on the web somewhere of a 302/5.0 block that's split in half, but the girdle and main caps are together. 

Maybe with your machining prowess, you'd be better inclined to making some nice enclosed cam tunnel sections instead.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 12:43:54 PM by blykins »
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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 12:46:18 PM »
I've seen many pictures of split 302's. Some of the later ones have split in half but, most crack at the first or second main at the bolt holes. This block is a cherry C8 I found last year.

My idea in this, is to spread the loads, as much as possible and that will reduce the harmonics, also.

Also, I have a external dry sump pump, of my own manufacture and it was designed around the H&M pump. I can add that later.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 12:53:09 PM by frnkeore »
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 12:50:58 PM »
I've seen many pictures of split 302's. Some of the later ones have split in half but, most crack at the first or second main at the bolt holes. This block is a cherry C8 I found last year.

The C8 blocks are pretty stinkin thick as is.  When I build road race engines where an aftermarket block isn't allowed, I usually try to find something similar. 

I'm not trying to pick on you, Frank, but I really think you should have left it alone.   I don't think drilling holes in the mains and drilling holes in the caps helped you much. 

When the blocks split, they split longitudinally.  The literally split in half, long-ways.  It all starts with a crack and a dip in oil pressure. 
Brent Lykins
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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 12:55:07 PM »
I can always count on you Brent
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2020, 01:11:21 PM »
I can always count on you Brent

I honestly wasn’t trying to give you a hard time.  But it’s easier to take a second thought or think about the design before the engine is assembled and ready to start.
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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 01:44:25 PM »
Again, that is your opinion and you have never tried anything like this, correct?

As I said, my idea is to spread the main bearing loads, as much as I could. All the force in down and in the direction of the rotation AT the main cap bolts. This reinforcement, spreads those loads, out away from the main bolts and adds support, to the main caps, with that .005 preload.

It's basically the same way a honey comb, aluminum structure adds strength to the aluminum.

Regardless of whether it's a early or weaker, late block. This structure, spreads the loads in center of  crankshaft/ block area.

It certainly adds strength to the #2 main bolts, where many of the cracks occur, in these early blocks.
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 03:05:19 PM »
Again, that is your opinion and you have never tried anything like this, correct?

As I said, my idea is to spread the main bearing loads, as much as I could. All the force in down and in the direction of the rotation AT the main cap bolts. This reinforcement, spreads those loads, out away from the main bolts and adds support, to the main caps, with that .005 preload.

It's basically the same way a honey comb, aluminum structure adds strength to the aluminum.

Regardless of whether it's a early or weaker, late block. This structure, spreads the loads in center of  crankshaft/ block area.

It certainly adds strength to the #2 main bolts, where many of the cracks occur, in these early blocks.

Frank, it's indeed my opinion, because I can honestly say I've never tried anything like that.   With the exception of one engine, I don't use girdles because I've seen too many pictures on the internet of blocks split in two, girdle or not.  It's also your opinion, since you have never tried anything like this either, so we're just tossing around thoughts. 

I'll take my engine builder hat off for a second and put my mechanical engineer hat on and say that my concern is that not only have you weakened the block with the extra holes (see pic below), but you have weakened the caps with the extra holes.   A .005" preload on the outside portion of the block may also cause a moment arm over the main cap itself and actually work against the fasteners holding the main caps on. 

BTW, this is how the older blocks usually fail, longitudinally down the middle, and through the main webbing supports, which you have drilled holes through.  The one picture is a D4 block, which isn't C8 quality, but a whole lot stouter than a late model 5.0 block.



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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 04:21:12 PM »
It's obvious that, that is a 3.4 stroker and if that is #1 or #2 main, that crack STARTED at the bottom of the  main bolt holes. The preload, adds vertical pressure, evenly, only to the cap, itself and does not effect the main studs.

I posted this mod on ST and with that, I talked on the phone, for about 2 hrs, with a actual, mechanical engineer. He agreed that it was a structural, strength improvement.  We agreed that it would be even stronger, if the pan rails could have been incorporated but, the girdle isn't wide enough for that. He has done a lot of research on these 289/302/5.0 blocks. Can you tell us where your mechanical engineering degree was issued?

I got this ideal after buying the girdle and putting it in place, then seeing that I could add this arrangement so, I did, just that.

It could be improved by furnace brazing the standoffs to the webs but, in my case, it's way to late for that. It took me over 6 mo, to get it out of the machine shop, as it is.
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 04:29:13 PM »
It's obvious that, that is a 3.4 stroker and if that is #1 or #2 main, that crack STARTED at the bottom of the  main bolt holes. The preload, adds vertical pressure, evenly, only to the cap, itself and does not effect the main studs.

I posted this mod on ST and with that, I talked on the phone, for about 2 hrs, with a actual, mechanical engineer. He agreed that it was a structural, strength improvement.  We agreed that it would be even stronger, if the pan rails could have been incorporated but, the girdle isn't wide enough for that. He has done a lot of research on these 289/302/5.0 blocks. Can you tell us where your mechanical engineering degree was issued?

I got this ideal after buying the girdle and putting it in place, then seeing that I could add this arrangement so, I did, just that.

It could be improved by furnace brazing the standoffs to the webs but, in my case, it's way to late for that. It took me over 6 mo, to get it out of the machine shop, as it is.

University of Kentucky, BSME, 2002.  Minor in mathematics.

Good luck.
Brent Lykins
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blykins

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 05:05:18 PM »
I posted this mod on ST....

You mean this thread? 

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61567&p=868883&hilit=girdle#p868883

The one where the first several responses are from seasoned engine builders telling you that you put holes where you shouldn't have put them?  And this response from a guy who's a mechanical engineer? 

"Mechanical Engineer here; not professional engine builder so YMMV.

For the few thousandths of distortion the block may experience, your outboard bolts aren't doing much of anything except maybe helping keep the bearing caps aligned. Even at .600 thick, the aspect ratio of the "beam" across the main caps is low. The mounting holes may weaken the block webs. Mounting a heavier structure to the block rails would be preferred.

Applying single point pressure to the center of your bearing caps doesn't seem cool at all and affects the cap bolt stretch that the bearing crush actually "sees". A machined flat on the caps such that the girdle becomes a series of straps across the cap bolts would be more rigid."


Hmmm.....the advice on that thread sounds very familiar!

Good luck, Franky boy.
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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2020, 05:43:00 PM »
Quote
I do have mechanical engineering degree & 40 years experience, & build my own sbfs. I do not want to write back & forth on speedtalk because it takes too much time, & I work full time.

Would you be willing to talk about this on the phone?

Copied from my messages at ST, this is the response I got from the guy I talked to.

The set screws are nothing more than contact supports, such as a steel strap would do and more dampening area.

So then what negative thing do you have to say about my pictured dry sump, water pump and timing belt drives?

Inquiring minds, want to know :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 03:17:35 AM by frnkeore »
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 10:49:04 PM »
Do you remember if it had a ASK number on it.

Besides being funded by Ford, the ASK means that it was also engineered by Ford, to be manufactured by a outside source.

Sorry, I don't remember. It was all aluminum castings except the scrapers and such, and I believe it was likely cast at the prototype foundry at Gate 4.

KS


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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2020, 11:13:36 PM »
To lighten the mood, Here's a 351 split down the middle. Completely. In half. Also had a girdle...


https://youtu.be/MJLS9xFXYAQ
Jared



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frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2020, 12:19:06 PM »
I was just looking at some of the responses and I saw that it may not be clear that this is a 3 stage DSP.

In this picture, you can see that the pressure stage is in the front (unlike most others), the screen covered port, is the 2nd stage. It savages and feeds the third stage outlet side, threw that thin, steel spacer (3/16) and that way both feed the return line, out the back of the pump.
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2020, 01:15:45 PM »
He has identified my dry sump, as one that was funded by Ford and could have been contracted out by H&M, Shelby or Gurney. I was told that it came from H&M but, they sold a lot of parts and could have got it from one of the other two sources. That info, come from the fact, that it has a ASK prefix, to it's part number.


      Do you know what actual racing project this was intended for?

      Scott.

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2020, 01:52:14 PM »
It came out of a McLaren, MK3 Can Am car, in '69. A privateer effort and other than Gurney, the 289 didn't last long.

Both Shelby and Gurney ran Can Am with the 289. H&M did too but, with BBF.

The other possibility's are the racing, Shelby Cobra's and there were a few F5000/USRRC cars, mostly Gurney but, several privateer's ran them, too.

I suppose the design, could have come from the push rod Indy effort. If anyone has pictures of the crankcase of that engine, it would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 01:55:11 PM by frnkeore »
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2020, 03:28:46 PM »
Do you remember if it had a ASK number on it.

Besides being funded by Ford, the ASK means that it was also engineered by Ford, to be manufactured by a outside source.

    Frank,
        Let me correct you a tiny bit. ALL Ford experimental parts were "charged" to a development program. "Some" program had to pay for it. In the "EEE" building there were three "main" Engineering entities. Production based engineering was done using XE numbers. More "race oriented" stuff was done using SK numbers and "Scientific" stuff was done using ASK numbers. All of these numbers were tied to the specific blueprint for the part being designed. These parts were not specifically manufactured by an outside source. Parts specifically made by an outside source carried an XH number. By the numbers I see your setup is something designed by Ford to be used by Gurney (AAR) for use at Indy ('68). ASK numbered/designed parts were used on the early pushrod Indy Ford V8s in '62 and continued through '69 projects with Smokey Yunick. I have flywheels, valves, cylinder heads , blocks , rods, and other parts with ASK numbers as well as SK and XE numbers.
     Randy

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2020, 05:27:13 PM »
Thank you, Randy. That's better info, than I got from Cushman.

The guy I got it from, said that it was a H&M so, I'm going to assume he bought the engine from them, with the dry sump.

I don't know how involved H&M was with Fords Indy program but, it does make since that it's roots, were from the the push rod Indy engine, as I alluded to, above.

The guy I bought it from, was a low end competitor and only raced, less than 2 years, including after he swapped out the 289 for SBC. He couldn't have bought the engine after '68 as that was the first year that I could find listings for him and he blew it in '69.

What about the part number, makes you think it was part of the Gurney effort, in '68? Could it have been surplus to  the earlier Indy push rod engine or does the part number make that impossible? I do know that H&M sold off a lot of Idy engine parts. I could have bought some at the Stroppe/H&M shop, in LB.
Frank

pbf777

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2020, 05:57:20 PM »
I suppose the design, could have come from the push rod Indy effort.


    That's what I was thinking.            :-\

    Scott.

cammerfe

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2020, 10:49:24 PM »
FWIW, my land speed car has a Jaguar-design V8 in it. The mains are all in one piece so it's both a set of mains and a girdle. The factory calls it a 'base-plate'. The wet sump is an additional aluminum casting, complete with scrapers, although it has a transmission-sized steel stamping as a cover toward the front. The castings all tie the bottom end together. It's pretty stout. The design was cited as a 'best new engine design' when first introduced.

KS

WConley

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2020, 11:48:05 PM »
Ken -

Yes a bedplate offers the best stiffness and stability for the bottom end of a block.  When I was at Ford they were working with Porsche Design on the Duratec V6 architecture.  Those use bedplates, but they were a giant PITA to get right.  The block and bedplate are aluminum but the bearing caps are cast-in iron.  Getting them cast together without cracking was quite an engineering effort!

The Jag AJ-V6 is directly derived from the Ford Duratec, so I imagine quite a lot of Duratec DNA made it into the AJ-V8.  The bedplate architecture does look quite similar.
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2020, 12:47:43 AM »
I did some looking around today and found a picture of the push rod, Indy engines, dry sump. It is nothing like mine!

It's 2 stage, with a pretty big savage pump, it's gear driven, mounts entirely different and the inlet and outlet are positioned differently.

Regarding "beadplates", Nissan/Datsun, have used them since, at least the 80's, on their low end engines. I have a couple of KA24E's that have them and I had a 510, in the early 80's, with a Z20. I think that's the engine type, it was a long time ago. I was very surprised when I first saw one!
Frank

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2020, 10:35:19 AM »
    Frank ,
        I am aware that the Indy ( both pushrod and cammer) dry sumps were different looking. I am also aware that those caps were used on iron blocks for Gurney AND some aluminum 351C blocks for use by Smokey Yunick ( didn't come to pass) for '69 INDY effort. I based my "assumption" on the chronological order of the ASK numbers and who had that kind of "pull" at Ford in that time frame. I have a decent amount of ASK numbers in my notebook.
     The Ford setup used on the Indy engines was pretty tricky since it was incorporated onto the main caps. Your set up looks to be a later more simplistic design and that in itself is not surprising. Holman Moody did NOT use ASK , SK , or XE numbers for parts "they" designed , so these were done by the "scientific engine group" as I mentioned. Yes Holman Moody was a "disposition location" for some of these projects/parts. The 427 SOHC engine inventory was "dumped" after the "production option" was cancelled is a perfect example.
    Randy

cammerfe

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2020, 12:38:05 PM »
A significant part of the 'dumped' 427 cammers went to Vermeersh. I can remember a whole row of them setting on a rack at his place during an early visit.

KS

cammerfe

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2020, 12:42:06 PM »
To add a bit of 'off-subject', has anyone heard anything current about John's health situation?

KS

gt350hr

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2020, 01:34:01 PM »
To add a bit of 'off-subject', has anyone heard anything current about John's health situation?

KS

    Yes I spoke to John at length the other day. He is doing well and was sharp. His only complaint was "healing slower than he used to". He has lost weight as well.

   The "official" disposition of the cammer inventory was  "ship to HM Charlotte for resale". Ford  wanted no liability with their sale. Plus bean counters could "write off" the inventory at full value "on paper" so they could be depreciated and sold off by H&M with shipping and "storage" tacked on.
   Randy
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 10:47:14 AM by gt350hr »

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2020, 02:56:41 PM »
I think we can assume that it was built for either Gurney or, Shelby, or even for both to run, in the USRRC/Can Am, F/A-F5000.

Shelby's, '63-'64, King Cobra, only lasted 2 years, in his name. Gurney, campaigned, his Lotus 19 and Lola T70, until '69. Gurney's MK5 F/A-F5000 hit the track in '68, mine was raced in '68 so, it would make since, that it was designed and built, before the end of '67.

I also, now think it was a road racing dedicated dry sump, because of it's 2nd stage, that helps under braking, and designed and built, between '63 and '67.

If only I could get a look at the Shelby system, that was used in '63.

Randy, do you have info of what the ASK numbers where used for, before and after my ASK2233? Is the "A" specific to  the engine group?
 
Frank

gt350hr

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2020, 11:00:41 AM »
   Frank,
    "A"SK is specific to the ''scientific" Engineering group which was "upstairs" from the Race engine group that used the SK numbers. These letter prefixes were for the blueprints that the parts were built to.  IIRC , the numbers around 2233 were associated with w "325" ci engine. I will check my note book tonight and get back to you.
    "IF" we had access to the engineering blue print , it would state what the part was designed for and have a date on the print as well. Revisions were noted as they were developed. Because of the "advanced" nature of ASK parts , little documentation has been "found" compared to the SK information I have. The gas turbine engines were designed with ASK numbers , cylinder head ports were also done by that dept and a host of other "top secret" , high priority projects. There are references to "some" ASK numbers in my SK log book copies.
   Randy

frnkeore

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2020, 11:27:09 AM »
Thank you, Randy.
Frank

cammerfe

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2020, 12:28:02 PM »
To lighten the mood, Here's a 351 split down the middle. Completely. In half. Also had a girdle...


https://youtu.be/MJLS9xFXYAQ

Goood ol' bawahz! :)

KS

gt350hr

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Re: SBF Dry Sump
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2020, 01:32:21 PM »
  +1 That us a Darwin award winner. I guess some don't place much value on their life. Blowing a motor at the finish line usually results in bodily injury.