428 versus 460

[gdaddy01]

is that supposed to be 427 cammer ?

[e philpott]

Always thought that the 429 Cammer dual quad was the best looking engine ever made, with day 2 or 3 Boss in close second place. (day 2 means de-smogged and day 2 Nascar intake and headers). 

However for some reason there seems to be have been little development on Cammer intake ports and they don't flow near the current Boss 9 head out of the box offerings, which are around 400 cfm for Kaase heads and about 440 cfm for Todd Miller heads.

 

   Is the Miller head available ?

[70tp]

Just wait till Jays heads get to to making decent power (they likely will) and push the crank out of everybody’s blocks.  Is it a bad thing to have heads than can out run the block or not? 

[babybolt]

LOL, changed the 429 Cammer to 427 Cammer above.

Yes, Todd Miller is still making heads but like many others has been slowed down the this plandemic.

[67xr7cat]

Ok, to the redundant question piece, note a piece of my original ask, "if one were to utilize that $10k well in terms of maximizing cubes"...  spend the $10k however you want including adding cubes.

To summarize, streetable end game, cheap junk yard block to start with, which one gets the nod for HP and torque for $10k? And I suppose something close to period available, no Godzilla's.

I must say though, never been a fan of mixing brand hardware, will not bother to look at a f100 with a chevy front end or a 350 or what ever.  Why someone builds a Cobra replica and throws a chevy motor in it I'll never know, but that's just me, to each his own.  I do find some appeal to modern engine tech in a classic, the old/new edgy look if done right is kind of neat.

For an F100 put a 460 in it and don't look back.  Saying streetable is vague to say what your build would cost, but a streetable 500 - 600 hp 385 based engine is not hard to do and if you keep it simple can be done for a lot less than $10k.

Here is a link to a video where they are playing around with basically factory stuff that not hard to find or to replicate. Gives you an idea what can be done with a 460 without getting fancy.  Now no way would I pay to port those heads for their 600 hp romp, be way ahead with some TFS or AFR heads, but think they made the point and that is just using regular TJet heads, not CJ's..

https://youtu.be/hqc3f4PWSCU

[garyv]

I just watched that video and thought it was pretty good at laying out what you can do with a 460 without breaking the bank.
I can personally say that getting 600hp out of an FE takes a little voodoo to accomplish and a bunch of cash. To go beyond that
takes more of both  .
Back in the mid 80's I build a 460 for my 78 F150. I recently found the receipts while going through some stuff in my garage. I have around $1500 in the engine including machine work but not counting the L&L headers, new clutch etc.
Used a block out of a Lincoln and kept the crank and rods.  Heads are C9VE-A's with screw in studs and guide plates, hardened push rods and adjustable rockers. I did clean up the exhaust ports but didn't touch the intake.
Edelbrock performer RPM intake and 750 carb. Comp cams 260 cam, double roller chain, new oil pump, TRW forged pistons and a stock duraspark distributor.  This thing runs great and has tons or torque and gets better mileage than the 351M that was in it. 
I love these old FE's but if you just want HP I think the 460 is the way to go.  They will make way over 600HP with ported stock iron heads.
My 2 cents

garyv

[My427stang]

I agree,

Here is a for instance. 

My 461 FE in the truck right now. Super strong and mellow. 490 HP

- Stroker kit
- .041 quench, 9.7:1 compression
- Victor intake
- Professionally ported iron heads with oversize valves
- 230/236 cam
- Headers

Do all that stuff, same stuff, don't limit cubes, but also to give the FE a fair shot, don't even spend the total on the 460.  You have at least a 514 and you didn't have to pay the money for a 428 block

Even if it was the same HP per cube being built for torque, the 514 would be closer to 550 HP, however, the better breathing due to the heads, intake and bore size would likely get you more. Limit the cubes, match the HP, but save a couple thou

My aversion in my F100, was always the cost of the L&L stuff, in hindsight, I wish I would have, but I can't hook now in a 4x4 SB, so I guess it's all bench racing!

[gt350hr]

Always thought that the 427 Cammer dual quad was the best looking engine ever made, with day 2 or 3 Boss in close second place. (day 2 means de-smogged and day 2 Nascar intake and headers). 

However for some reason there seems to be have been little development on Cammer intake ports and they don't flow near the current Boss 9 head out of the box offerings, which are around 400 cfm for Kaase heads and about 440 cfm for Todd Miller heads.

 

    That might be why flow bench don't have slicks.

[garyv]

Ross back when I did the 460 for my truck there were very few parts for the conversion other than L&L stuff. I didn't think it was to
pricey back then. I used a 40lb steel billet flywheel and a center force clutch kit. I know lot of guys don't like the center force clutches but this one has been great,  Other outfits now make the motor mounts and headers but nothing is cheap.  I have a set of Hedman fender well exit headers but think I'll just keep the L&L ones on it. 

garyv

 

[Barry_R]

At least half the fun in building a strong FE lies in "doing what folks say you could not do".

Fifteen years ago we had people on the old FE Forum telling me I should not build and enter an FE because we could not be competitive.
Look where we as a group are at now.

[Rory428]

At least half the fun in building a strong FE lies in "doing what folks say you could not do".

Fifteen years ago we had people on the old FE Forum telling me I should not build and enter an FE because we could not be competitive.
Look where we as a group are at now.

Agreed, Barry. I also find that quite often (but not always, as there are indeed plenty of quick 385 powered cars out there), many of these ''easy'' mild 550-600 HP 460ish engines seem to perform at the track like there dyno numbers or guesstimates, were rather optimistic once the engine was installed in a vehicle, and put to work on the starting line. Maybe some areas have an aboundance of pump gas, 9 second naturally aspirated 460 powered street cars, but if there are any around here, they don`t seem to come out to play .

[cjshaker]

At least half the fun in building a strong FE lies in "doing what folks say you could not do".

Occasionally, everyone needs slapped with that comment...lol
Ain't nobody here building FE's because it's the best engine design, or because they're cheap, or to get rich.

[Rory428]

Exactly, I started racing my first FE in 1977 (66 Fairlane GTA 390), 43 years later, still love the FE. Started with Y Blocks, raced a 351C before the Fairlane, but FE Fever took hold, and still got it. If you were looking for plain logic, racing cars makes little sense, doing it with an engine that hasn`t been in production for 44 years makes even less sense. Star Treks Dr. Spock was all about logic, but did anybody ever see him smile?

[bsprowl]

Well said Rory.  Our FEs are fun. 

It's great when we surprise the other brands with our obsolete engines.

[cammerfe]

Always thought that the 427 Cammer dual quad was the best looking engine ever made, with day 2 or 3 Boss in close second place. (day 2 means de-smogged and day 2 Nascar intake and headers). 

However for some reason there seems to be have been little development on Cammer intake ports and they don't flow near the current Boss 9 head out of the box offerings, which are around 400 cfm for Kaase heads and about 440 cfm for Todd Miller heads.

 

Jim Dove was known to 'get a bug' and work non-stop for several days while coming up with a new 'something'. One I know about was a re-work of the cammer head to include the intake runners from a Top Fuel aftermarket head. He made patterns and had castings made. He had a second floor overhead walkway from his bedroom to a close-by pole barn. The first thing in the pole barn was a room with a Super-Flow flow bench. (The room also held some of his one-off dreamer projects setting where he put  them down when he got distracted by something else.)

His head casting with the new runners would flow beyond 500 CFM without any more development than the grafting-in process. No telling what might have been possible with some additional work...

KS