Installing a Holley Sniper Stealth EFI - I've got questions

[fairlaniac]

Last weekend I won a raffle at the Fairlane Club National Meet. A Holley Sniper Stealth 4150 EFI. Just a week prior I had some nasty issues with vapor lock on my new 427 (484). It was ironic timing for sure. So I have a few questions before I get to installing the kit. Also if anyone has experience and it seems I'm off track, yank me back in line.

To start I have read through the quick start instructions included. I then found a 70+ page set of full instructions on Holley's website that I've yet to read. I also watched a video on Youtube by Holley. I assume hooking up the fuel I would connect from my supply at the pickup in the tank. See my picture below as I have it right now. I imagine I would hook my fuel pump, pre-filter and post filter up to this connection. They say close to the tank and below it. My '66 Fairlane has space in front of the tank and I thought I'd make a bracket to mount the filters and pump. So I'll hook up to the supply from the pickup and run through the filters and pump up to the EFI unit. What would be the best way to hook up the return line? Has anyone done a similar install? Also, do I keep my factory tank vent hooked up?

What I won includes kit 526-13, but is similar to this: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...ts/parts/526-4 and it has a fuel pump in the kit. Here is a video I watched on Youtube for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqfByzI6gJE&list=LLF2NTGxhJS5aBGJsCH5-mDg&index=3&t=1020s

I know Drew may not agree with my EFI change but I won it so what the heck I'll give it a shot.

Factory vent tube


My current pickup


Thanks,

[JamesonRacing]

Congrats Doug!

Here's what I used to add a return on one of my Fairlanes: https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/1089_fordsend.html

I'm planning to upgrade the fuel delivery over the winter with an Aeromotive Gen II in-tank pump.  (Here's an example on a Mustang https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/64-68-mustang-stealth-fuel-tank/). They don't list Fairlanes as an application, but they do the conversion in their custom shop.  They will install their system in your tank for ~$650. 

I have a Sniper on the 445 in my truck.  I use the factory Duraspark locked out and the Sniper controls the timing.  So far so good.

[cammerfe]

I've used Holley EFI several times and in a number of different configurations. I've never done a Sniper installation, but since your questions seem to center on the fuel delivery area, perhaps I can help.

I did a dual quad layout on Brother Lon's '67 Mustang/427 TP combo, so let's use that for an example. We took the outlets out of the back of the tank, using bulkhead fittings. The pumps were used in parallel, with pre and post-pump filters and then 'Y'-d together into one line up to the engine compartment. We used a custom aluminum fuel log to feed the two throttle bodies. The return lines were also 'Y'd and went back to the tank where the line was tapped into the filler neck in the back of the trunk. This was done to insure that there was no 'head' to pump against to, perhaps, interfere with the flow return. It also made it unlikely that there would be any chance of picking up foam from the flow and by returning to the tank in two widely varying spots, the fuel would have a maximum chance of being cool, not heated by the activity of flowing fore-'n'-aft. I will simply say that bulkhead fittings are your friends as is teflon-lined stainless braid line.

KS

[66FAIRLANE]

Here's my Sniper install if your interested. http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5429.msg58251#msg58251

I already had a return line as I ran bypass with the carb. I put the return in the sender/pick up unit many years ago when I upsized the pick up to 1/2".

[My427stang]

As long as you have a safe way yo get the fuel to and from the tank, you are good.  I have drilled sending units on Chebbys for a bulkhead fitting and used nylon washers to seal it up, I have used stock return lines, and I have fished 90 degree lines with bulkhead fittings into the fill tube (although that's a pain and sort of hokey)

If you use that vent, you need a vented cap, but the EFI itself doesn't care how it's vented, you just need to have a vent as you use up fuel

What I would do is get it running with the cheapest WHILE SAFE setup you can do, because in the end, you may want to buy a tank or clean yours out well for modification and sink a pump into it.  They are quieter by a long shot, cheaper, last longer cooled by fuel,   more choices, and cleaner setup.  However, you get it safe and running and see if you like it first

I preach this like a broken record, but you'll have to look at your coolant temp and gauge ports.  If you don't drill/tap or weld a bung AND you have a heater, you'll need to get creative on gauge and ECT sensor location.  As a rule, put the ECT in the gauge hole OR if no heater, in the hole for the heater hose fitting.  You need good pre-thermostat water for the ECT. 

If you do run a heater, you can put the gauge in the thermostat housing, not the ECT sensor, because it won't be too accurate cold, it is OK for the gauge, especially if you drill the thermostat and can have it spraying there.  On installs that I do an intake change, I almost always add a bung so I can run everything, heater, ECT, and stock/aftermarket gauge.

[Ranch]

Congratulations on your win.
I've already installed the Holley EFI pump and return line from a bypass regulator to eliminate my vapor lock and the pump is so Quiet mounted on the frame rail with filters.


I’ve been tossing the idea of going to the Sniper and have asked around for pros and con’s on an FE.
We all have heard the Pros
Fast start, smoother idle, better throttle response (my quick fuel has no problem here), no vapor lock, better gas mileage (that I like).    They self-learn.

The Con’s…..  This is what I’ve heard from a couple of installers and owners 
EFIs don’t run as well on duel plain intakes, so maybe a 1” spacer will help.  (I have a PI intake (duel Plain)
They don’t like certain cams (I don’t know about my Comp 282s)
Since the ECU is in the front on the Sniper throttle body it can be interfered with by the FE’s front mounted distributor, something to do with RFI (radio frequency interference). Guys that install these things say a Holley distributor works better, (they have Hall Effect) …I have an MSD billet, you would think someone would come up with a shield for us Ford guys.

My pet peeve is, most FE intakes have only one water temp bong and the sniper needs to know water temp., so what do I do with my SW gauge.

Like I said this is what I’ve heard and just my opinion

[fairlaniac]

As long as you have a safe way yo get the fuel to and from the tank, you are good.  I have drilled sending units on Chebbys for a bulkhead fitting and used nylon washers to seal it up, I have used stock return lines, and I have fished 90 degree lines with bulkhead fittings into the fill tube (although that's a pain and sort of hokey)

If you use that vent, you need a vented cap, but the EFI itself doesn't care how it's vented, you just need to have a vent as you use up fuel

What I would do is get it running with the cheapest WHILE SAFE setup you can do, because in the end, you may want to buy a tank or clean yours out well for modification and sink a pump into it.  They are quieter by a long shot, cheaper, last longer cooled by fuel,   more choices, and cleaner setup.  However, you get it safe and running and see if you like it first

I preach this like a broken record, but you'll have to look at your coolant temp and gauge ports.  If you don't drill/tap or weld a bung AND you have a heater, you'll need to get creative on gauge and ECT sensor location.  As a rule, put the ECT in the gauge hole OR if no heater, in the hole for the heater hose fitting.  You need good pre-thermostat water for the ECT. 

If you do run a heater, you can put the gauge in the thermostat housing, not the ECT sensor, because it won't be too accurate cold, it is OK for the gauge, especially if you drill the thermostat and can have it spraying there.  On installs that I do an intake change, I almost always add a bung so I can run everything, heater, ECT, and stock/aftermarket gauge.

Thank you all for your great responses.

I would like to just get it hooked up with the EFI and installation kit provided. As you mentioned, get it running. See if i like it and then upgrade.

I've never had a Chebby but am I correct that all or most of their sending units drop in from the top? My Fairlane basically goes in from the bottom. To put a return fitting on the sending unit I am concerned if the pressure of up to 20 gallons of fuel above pushing down would not allow the return to even flow? On the CHEAP for now, I'm looking for my safest and working option on the return line to the tank. Would taking the tank out and have a fitting put in be best for my initial approach or is there an ever easier method of choice? I don't want to reinvent the wheel and I am very new to this EFI stuff so thank you for your patience.

[My427stang]

I am sorry, yes, Chevy comes from the top, my point was merely if you have a nice circuit in and out there are many ways to get there.

It sounds like you are not concerned with the supply side design, you just need to figure out the return.  Any way you can get fuel from the regulator to the tank, safely, will be fine. It is not pressurized, it just needs to be adequate to get the extra fuel back to the tank.

You could drop the tank and have a fitting added towards the top of the tank, it can be under fuel level too, so whatever is convenient.  You could use your current vent, but if you do, you need a vented cap, you could also even have something put into that downpipe on your fill neck, you just need to make sure it sprays down toward the fuel not toward the cap

[fairlaniac]

I am sorry, yes, Chevy comes from the top, my point was merely if you have a nice circuit in and out there are many ways to get there.

It sounds like you are not concerned with the supply side design, you just need to figure out the return.  Any way you can get fuel from the regulator to the tank, safely, will be fine. It is not pressurized, it just needs to be adequate to get the extra fuel back to the tank.

You could drop the tank and have a fitting added towards the top of the tank, it can be under fuel level too, so whatever is convenient.  You could use your current vent, but if you do, you need a vented cap, you could also even have something put into that downpipe on your fill neck, you just need to make sure it sprays down toward the fuel not toward the cap

I was looking earlier and I could get a bung that I can drill a hole near the sending unit opening, reach in and tighten a backing nut for the bung? I'm seeing conflicting info on the "net" on having the supply and return to the tank where it causes a turbulence at that location. Any known issues with that?

Thanks!

[My427stang]

In theory, turbulence, especially if it is foaming, could cause pump starvation problems.  However, if you put a bung on the surface of the sending unit, you are a long way from the pickup point itself.  I wouldn't be too worried about it

[fairlaniac]

In theory, turbulence, especially if it is foaming, could cause pump starvation problems.  However, if you put a bung on the surface of the sending unit, you are a long way from the pickup point itself.  I wouldn't be too worried about it

I might as well go with a RobbMc sending unit as JamesonRacing mentioned. There isn't room on my sending unit to put another fitting. No smooth sealing surface on the back side.

I had forgotten how far away from the mounting plate the end of the pick up tube was. Turbulence shouldn't be an issue.



Thanks,

[fairlaniac]

Here's my Sniper install if your interested. http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5429.msg58251#msg58251

I already had a return line as I ran bypass with the carb. I put the return in the sender/pick up unit many years ago when I upsized the pick up to 1/2".

Nice documentation. Which route did you take to the tank for your return line? Parallel with the supply or other?

Thanks,

[My427stang]

The RobbMc sender, if it will work and is available, is certainly the cleanest install, and keeps the lines running alongside and in the same area. 

When you start playing with it, remember a couple things. 

1 - Follow the directions, especially for throttle blade, idle air control and  throttle position sensor setup
2 - Make sure you run enough fuel pressure (I just worked on an LS twin turbo yesterday, it was running rich, HUGE injectors, so the guy dropped the pressure back.  It was opposite of what he wanted to do, because the injectors only dribbled fuel at idle instead of spray)
3 - Any time you do a throttle adjustment the old school carb way, reset the TPS.  TPS at idle and WOT is how the computer understand what you want the car to do, in fact, the throttle position sensor is the only information that comes from the driver
4 - If the system allows you to save a tune on a computer and you have one that is getting close, save it before you tweak.  Then you can always undo your "improvements"

There is no doubt you will get bit by the bug on a street car, it's fun after the pains of the install

[DuckRyder]

The Holley Master kit includes a fitting and some tube to make a return.

As Ross has correctly said the factory vent, filler tube and sending unit are all ways that people use to get the return into a factory tank. I have read cautions (I believe it was the Holley forum) about making sure the vent is of sufficient size if you use it.

I have a terminator stealth on the F100 and ended up just dumping the return into a vent hose that runs from the neck to the tank, it works fine. I fully intend at a later date to do an in tank setup using a Mustang tank conversion, but it is totally fine the way it is. Were it me and getting the return hose into the trunk wasn't too big of a deal I would dump it into that vent.

There is a ton of very good information on the Holley forum too, they will help you if you need it and some here can't.

That looks like a really nice system, those weren't out when I did mine, I like that they moved the electronics to the side.

[fairlaniac]

The RobbMc sender, if it will work and is available, is certainly the cleanest install, and keeps the lines running alongside and in the same area. 

When you start playing with it, remember a couple things. 

1 - Follow the directions, especially for throttle blade, idle air control and  throttle position sensor setup
2 - Make sure you run enough fuel pressure (I just worked on an LS twin turbo yesterday, it was running rich, HUGE injectors, so the guy dropped the pressure back.  It was opposite of what he wanted to do, because the injectors only dribbled fuel at idle instead of spray)
3 - Any time you do a throttle adjustment the old school carb way, reset the TPS.  TPS at idle and WOT is how the computer understand what you want the car to do, in fact, the throttle position sensor is the only information that comes from the driver
4 - If the system allows you to save a tune on a computer and you have one that is getting close, save it before you tweak.  Then you can always undo your "improvements"

There is no doubt you will get bit by the bug on a street car, it's fun after the pains of the install

Thanks Ross.