Author Topic: Cruiser Carb recommendation  (Read 8579 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2020, 05:43:14 PM »
Make sure to record the call to the tech line.... it’s worth it to relisten over drinks later

   How's that gonna help the OP make a better informed decision on a carb? Maybe you have some sage advice to contribute?

-Seems to me he has plenty of good advice.
-This forum has no restrictions on levity.
-If he wanted carb advice from me, he’d have contacted me privately just like the other people that want to talk to me, he wanted the advice of the masses, and that is what he got.

Seriously tho, calling Holley or Summit to ask about their own products would be like asking the bag boy at walmart to butcher a cow for ya. Sure, maybe he can do it, but you’d be better off talking to the guy in the meat department.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 07:54:51 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

DubyaTF

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2020, 05:58:33 PM »
I'm re-reading it and I'm stuck at this-

   don't call Holley or Quick Fuel about their carbs but you SHOULD call Drew about HIS carbs....got it. Sage advice indeed.

   How's that for levity?
Jeff

Joey120373

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2020, 06:57:46 PM »
Go for a well worn in Quadra-jet, off day an 82 vintage anything. The more crusty wires going to mystery emissions dingusses the better.

If at all possible get one that you can physically wiggle the throttle shaft back and forth at least 1/8 inch or so.
 ;D

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2020, 06:58:47 PM »
I don’t build generics, if he wanted a QF I’d say to call Brent/Perkins as Ross mentioned above.


Lol ok.... dunno who you are, but I’m sorry you have something against me.

Take it easy fella.  Later!

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2020, 07:00:14 PM »
Go for a well worn in Quadra-jet, off day an 82 vintage anything. The more crusty wires going to mystery emissions dingusses the better.
If at all possible get one that you can physically wiggle the throttle shaft back and forth at least 1/8 inch or so.
 ;D


Joey, you forgot the stripped out fuel inlet that someone epoxied into place!

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4238
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2020, 08:36:27 PM »
Make sure to record the call to the tech line.... it’s worth it to relisten over drinks later

   How's that gonna help the OP make a better informed decision on a carb? Maybe you have some sage advice to contribute?

He was only joking, if anyone calls their tech it’s ridiculous.

However, what’s missing from the OPs list is one of Drew’s high end restored carbs, pick from any of probably 100 on he bench. He likely does have some EF Hutton level carb advice, which he freely shares
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2020, 08:50:48 PM »
Nah, if folks want a restored engine with matching numbers, I do know a guy.... didn’t seem to be the endgoal here.

Typically I refer folks to Velocity racing carbs for well, racing carbs, or T4carburetors for most other generics.
I’ve seen an unfortunate amount of quality control issues with new stuff, even if I were to buy a new carb, I’d get it through Perkins, one of the above, or any other detail oriented carb shop.
Great part about those places Is that if/when you have an issue, you can call the actual person who built the carb.
I feel the same way about engines, transmissions, anything really... much nicer to deal with an expert for their *sage* advice

DubyaTF

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2020, 09:11:48 AM »

  Nothing against anyone. I realize he was joking but it didn't help the OP did it? The guy was/is looking a carb for a cruiser type 390 like mine. Nothing crazy or fancy I'd say. No concours level deal. Just a good reliable carb for a fair price right? He asked the differences between all their ridiculous models because why pay money for a feature that won't matter to the average joe? I guess it's true that if you run a business or offer a service you get to choose when to act professionally to strangers. I don't run a business; I just gave the guy the best of what I know taken with a grain of salt. If it only ends up being entertainment for all you top dog experts, then fine. Where I come from, that's not helping anyone. Yeah, I know. It's the internet, act however you want. I've asked "stupid" questions on this forum before and got very good guidance without ridicule and I greatly appreciate it. So much so that it made me want to support said business owners.

  Now then, if I said anything that's a mistake or poor form, correct it with all of your freely given wisdom.

  Beyond that gentlemen have a good day.
Jeff

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2020, 11:19:18 AM »
Agree with Drew - ANY carb you buy these days, I would take apart and clean with B-12 and air. 

Here's a couple of cents from me lol

Ford 4100 - kinda rare, hard to find a good one these days especially the larger venturi items.  Jetting tricky I think because of lack of parts and the jets are not HOlley size.  They work work very well.  Big annular boosters make for good low speed operation, especially with a heavy car, street gear, street converter, etc.  The Falcon with a stock 289 C code, iron 4 bbl intake, junk yard small venturi 4100 3 speed, F60-14 bia tires and 2.79 rear went as quick as 14.6 @ 96 at Green Valley.

Summit - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08600vs  Good units, didn't sell for Holley because "that donna look like no Holly carb to me".  Booster design like the 4100, the rest takes standard Holley parts - jets, choke parts, accel pump diaphragms and such.  Vacuum secondary control units same as Holley, same springs and such.  Top removes like 4100 for service and change jets.  Pump shooters adjusted using pin drills to mod the booster passage.  That used to be a problem but now that Summit has the line, replacement booster parts should be available.  I ran a 750 vacuum version on a 3350 lb car, 11" converter, 3.25 gear, 351V 4V open chamber, Weiand single plane BFG street tires.  Drove great, ran 8.40s in the 1/8 mile, that's low 13s in the 1/4.  Still have the carb.

Edelbrock - comes with a very good turning manual, just have to buy a tuning kit for extra $$ to get the parts.  Basically a Carter re-man.  Looks like a mini spread bor from the bottom.  Primary bores are smaller and have very efficient boosters for great low speed mixing.  Secondary are weighted air vane controlled by primary air flow , opening rate tuneable on the AVS series. Throttle plates open primary, then secondary like a double pumper.  Fairly easy to tune, do have to remove the top and linkages to replace a jet should your turning require it.  Accel pump travel adjustable (three positions).  Metering rods drop in from top so real easy and can control the rod lift rates (enrichment) with tuning kit springs. Limited selection of shooters for accel pump, but the .033 usually works if the stock .028 doesn't.  I think the next up is a .045, so you can buy a .028 and use pin drills.  Problem is you have to remove the top to RnR the shooter.  But once tuned - and they work pretty well right out of the box - it's set and forget.  Back to back Ed 600 vs Holley list 1850 on a mild 302 showed Ed +2 MPG for the win.  I've also run two of the Ed 600s on a tunnel ram and had them work well.  Also used on a daily with good results.  On a cast iron intake, stock closed hood -  would recommend a heat shield and a non-metallic spacer to control heat if you live in a hot climate.  Stock type Fors setup - iron intake, crossovers open, aluminum PCV spacer - in Texas summer can boil the fuel right out of the bowls. 

Holley - everybody has one or two or 23.  Modular, well known, parts common as dirt.  My wife rebuilt one while we were dating.  Have to drain the bowls to change jets, even if you run it dry with the motor from shutting off the fuel pump.  Always use Holley brand blue non-stick gaskets or you'll be sorry IMHO.  I don't like the QFT gaskets - harder than the Holley parts and the bowl gaskets usually require trimming around the pins, especially if you are using some replacement billet metering blocks.  I even use the Holley blue parts with methanol. Not as good as Buna-N when running alcohol but good for a typical season. Many Holley post-rebuild issues come from mis-placed power valve gaskets (leaks right into intake if not centered correctly) and metering block to main body cross passage fuel leaks.  Super tuning a Holley starts usually with machining or filing flat the main body faces to restore good sealing with the blocks.  The faces and block warp from people putting 47 ft/lbs on the bowl screws.  PV gaskets tend to deteriorate quickly these days.  "Blown power valve" is what is wrong with every Holley carb, however it's truly a very rare condition.  You need an old base plate and a hella backfire to break one.  Standard dog leg boosters are the lowest on the efficiency scale.  They work, are cheap to Mfg.  Down legs on the larger carbs are better but still mainly come into their own with higher air flow rates.  Carbs can be had with annular boosters.  "List 3310", vacuum 750 is likely the most common carb used on 300~400ish CID engines.    First thing you do with a used one is look at the close for hacks before paying for it, then return it to stock configuration before you bolt it on and test.  Give a guy a Holley and a screw driver and there's an 60% chance it's going to not run right after he "tunes it up".  After any adjustment, you must wing the throttle 4~6 times - that's required.  Kidding aside, very versatile units.  The DP series has so many sizes because you can fit one very close to an engine's requirements.  The 4777 650DPs are really nice all around units.  I have one that runs right on a 250 HP 302 or the 575HP 393 on the dragster.   QFT aftermarket billet metering blocks are a good upgrade.  ProForm blocks - meh.  All billet base plates assume 4 corner idle, so on older units you'd want matching metering blocks.  ProForm main bodies are usually pretty decent parts but are air bleeded for 4 corner idle, so have to change some parts to update a 2 corner idle stock Holley.  I built a 750 vacuum using QFT blocks and a ProForm center, loaned to a friend running a 454 in a Firebird with a 850DP one night.  Car picked up 5 MPH and nearly 1 second in 1/8 mile.  Like to never got that carb back.  QFT, others are all basic Holley DNA, the rest is in the setup and tuning.   Barry Grant had some good stuff in his day, but was a total asshole and later on quality went to hell.  I have one of his fuel pumps that likes to run full pressure until you need it, then go to zero.  Performance back to back 600 DP vs Ed 600 showed Holley for the win by about .02 in 1/8 mile.  YMMV of course.  For a lot of strip performance applications, the best bet is to hand the carb to someone with a good rep, then bolt it on and run it.  Put the screw driver in the tool box after setting the idle mix and speed.  The Holley HP series has a decent track rep for running well out of box.

Yes, I've seen a tuned Quadrajet blow a Holley's ears off on the dyno.  Very complicated metering devices, but work excellent in the right hands.  Not my hands.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 11:27:32 AM by Falcon67 »

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2020, 11:59:40 AM »
I have a few customers with Edelbrocks and we're both happy , they wanted a carb you don't have to touch for 5 or more years , they didn't want a fuel pump diahram leaking and catching fire , they were not chasing every ounce of HP and Edelbrock fits the bill in those cases . Edelbrock has also quietly increased the tuneability of these carbs with more metering rods , jets and 4 different squirters sizes now available depending on what you need . I wanted a carb they didn't have problems too so it was a win win for me . I used to instal Performer Intakes and 600 Performer carb on the mid late 70's 400 F150/250 PU's and it was night and day difference from a carb that needed no periodic maintenance  for the farmers

Royce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 795
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2020, 12:55:22 PM »
Quote
  After any adjustment, you must wing the throttle 4~6 times - that's required.

We call that a scrub tune up around here..Invariably at the track some ratty big block that's running ragged get's that treatment from the guy in the next pit stall annoying the hell out of his neighbors.. Usually happens on and off after all the 15 second runs till they pack it in and go home.
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam
2000 Jaguar XK8 (Ford V8)

Royce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 795
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2020, 01:01:10 PM »
Actually for a cruiser carb. I would say Summit, Edelbrock, QF it is tweedle dee or tweedle dum. They all work for me out of the box. Another one not mentioned is the Holley Demon with the Goggle valve. Pretty to look at and the one I bought for 220 bucks on a closeout works very well on a mild 300 inch engine..
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam
2000 Jaguar XK8 (Ford V8)

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2020, 02:38:49 PM »
I wondered how the new Demonquad thingies worked out. Not a ton of feedback.
I’d seen them, realized they were a reinvention of a previous design... but you know that can be hit or miss.

Cool to hear they made them decently.

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2020, 03:25:00 PM »
Street Demon looks very Carter-ish.  The rest I think they got from Barry Grant when he shut down. 

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Cruiser Carb recommendation
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2020, 06:16:11 PM »
Demon is  a Carter Thermo Quad