Author Topic: BP Truck Application 469FE  (Read 9416 times)

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mbrunson427

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BP Truck Application 469FE
« on: May 17, 2020, 10:43:09 PM »
Blair wrote me and asked if I would post up these pictures and video of an engine he just completed and dyno'd.

It's a 469 cube 428 stroker. BBM heads, performer RPM intake. 537 peak hp, 633 peak tq. Blair can fill in more details.

Video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GLi0PWtDHF_rt0BGDa_HR0b1qasL0qBL/view?invite=CKWoloYG&ts=5ec03e86





Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

My427stang

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2020, 06:51:51 AM »
Nice work!  Looking forward to hearing some details, the exhaust sounded fantastic on that pull, should be a monster
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cjshaker

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2020, 08:28:27 AM »
1.35 ft lbs tq per cube ought to get the job done.

I'd like to see the truck that thing is going in. I'll go out on a limb and say it isn't your average daily driver beater!
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2020, 09:01:06 AM »
1.35 ft lbs tq per cube ought to get the job done.

I'd like to see the truck that thing is going in. I'll go out on a limb and say it isn't your average daily driver beater!

I would totally throw it in my crappy 76

mbrunson427

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 11:22:16 AM »
Couple different pulls:
Mike Brunson
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Stangman

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 10:14:12 PM »
A stump puller for sure sounds nice. The torque is beautiful. Yes I would also like to see what its going in.

CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 10:29:40 PM »
9.75:1 static compression

428 service block, 4.190 x 4.250.  Safe cylinder walls.

.515 valve lift, 218/218@.050, 110 separation

BBM heads with my cnc chamber program, light hand porting, proprietary valve job, 2.200/1.660 valves.

Performer RPM with some porting and plenum touch up.  No divider cut for this application.  4-hole wood spacer.

Custom Holley carb.  Started life as an 1850 main body.  Finished carb, 4150 style, 840 cfm, vacuum secondary.

Good rocker shafts, billet stands with supports, non-adjustable OE rockers with tight shaft clearance.

Cometic head and manifold gaskets.

Full length 391 oil pan with internal mods, Canton screen.

Idles smooth at 850 rpm when warm. 

FPA tri y truck headers 1-3/4 primary x 2-1/2 outlet.

31° total timing
Blair Patrick

cjshaker

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 11:12:38 PM »
Holy cow, that torque curve! The fact that it's so flat, and with such a conservative camshaft on a 110 separation, shows how little I know about camshafts. That's an impressive towing engine though! And the fact that it was done with 31* of timing shows how efficient the chambers must be. Should be able to live on about any fuel also. Very nice, Mr. Patrick.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:15:09 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

frnkeore

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 01:44:26 AM »
I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is the cam a standard ramp HFT like a CC?

2. Do you mind saying how many CFM the heads flowed?

Unbelievable HP & TQ numbers for that style cam!

Oh, one more question, was there anything left but, the bowls, from that 1850?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 01:48:14 AM by frnkeore »
Frank

My427stang

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 06:35:53 AM »
Very nice Blair, if it's going in a 1/2 ton, better be an axle and u-joint upgrade delivering with it   8)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 07:27:15 AM »
It's a hydraulic roller with custom lobes.  I think it would be really hard to get the torque down low with a flat tappet.   The carb has center hung bowls and metering blocks on both  ends.  1.320 venturi, 1.686 baseplate, with special boosters.  We just used the 1850 main body to get something small enough to work with.  The entry is reshaped and it is re-tapered under the venturis to match a 780 base.  We did it with low lift and OE rockers with nothing to fail, with intent for years of service.   I've been joking about it being an FE Super Duty.  The chamber is really good, and this program finishes it off real nice.  31° timing, huge low lift numbers, flows a little over 300 at .500 lift, 235 exhaust at .500 lift.  I don't post everything we do, but this was kind of a fun and different type engine, and I thought it would be of interest to the truck crowd, of which I am a member.  I sent Mike some more pics to post.  He'll catch me up I'm sure.  I'm just an old hillbilly and not smart enough to post all them pictures.

The truck is a '69 F-250 highboy..... more like an F350 on steroids now.  The man has owned it for years.  It has had the frame reinforced in places, heavier springs on both ends.  Not a show truck.....a clean old truck that gets USED.   It pulls tractors, heavy trailers, and a 28' enclosed car trailer.  Dana 60 in front, Dana 70 posi rear, and a late model GM 5-speed transmission.
Blair Patrick

cjshaker

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 08:39:06 AM »
It pulls tractors, heavy trailers, and a 28' enclosed car trailer.  Dana 60 in front, Dana 70 posi rear, and a late model GM 5-speed transmission.

Blair, is the owner a forum member? I'd be interested in hearing more about that 5spd conversion.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

mbrunson427

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2020, 08:55:52 AM »
Here's more:





Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

chilly460

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 09:25:44 AM »
Awesome stuff, especially that it's being used in a real working truck.  Torque curve is great, but it really holds on up top with that little cam.

cjshaker

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 10:40:37 AM »
Highboys are the best built, hardest working, longest lasting trucks ever made. I really miss my '68. I put that thing through hell, and it never batted an eye.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

e philpott

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2020, 11:05:24 AM »
Holy Moly that's impressive !!

HarleyJack17

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2020, 11:41:15 AM »
The owner may need to upgrade some drive line parts to hold all that as previously stated. They are tough old trucks for sure, but that is some serious new level power down low. Still cheaper than a new one, and you can work on it with out a puter science degree. Well done, two thumbs up.

KjcfeF100

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2020, 02:39:01 PM »
Quote
Good rocker shafts, billet stands with supports, non-adjustable OE rockers with tight shaft clearance.

Who makes those stands / supports?  Are those from P.O.P.?  I don't recall seeing that exact setup. 

BigBlueIron

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2020, 03:24:31 PM »
Highboys are reason I fell into the FE world.  Head over heals

CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2020, 06:26:39 PM »
Shafts and stands from Rocker Arms Unlimited.  He does a nice job on the tips of the old rockers also.  I put the stud kits together with ARP studs,thick washers, and 6-point flanged nuts. I shim outside the end plugs and put a roll pin in there so the end plugs can't ever come out.  All bulletproof stuff for a combo like this.

Someone asked about the trans in the truck.  It is an NV4500 5-speed.  The truck has a twin stick divorced transfer case, so adapting the trans was not that difficult.  Custom clutch, driveshaft, and mount fabrication. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 06:31:07 PM by CaptCobrajet »
Blair Patrick

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2020, 07:16:43 PM »
Blair, you seem to love building the torque monsters more than the high winders!  I'm sure that the all-iron torquer you built for me doesn't make quite the big numbers that this one does, but it gets the towing done quite well regardless.
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CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2020, 08:47:45 PM »
Blair, you seem to love building the torque monsters more than the high winders!  I'm sure that the all-iron torquer you built for me doesn't make quite the big numbers that this one does, but it gets the towing done quite well regardless.

I like doing them David......thanks for the compliment.  That one you have is a good piece.  I'm partial to the FE period.  They can be built for any purpose.  I grew up standing on the tunnel of a '66 shortbed shifting the column for my dad when I could barely see over the dash. (May not be the safest thing, but I lived to tell it).  Then a '69 F-250, then a '77 Camper Special 350, as a kid.  We still have two of those three trucks.  I do love the trucks, and I like making them pull when that is the task. 

I've towed a lot of miles in all 48 lower states over my life.  Every time I hit a grade, I look at the tach in whatever I'm in, and think of how to make an FE run there.  We need maximum torque from 2200-4000 to tow heavy.  I try to figure out how to maximize that range.  If you happen to turn it more to get a good spot in the next gear, it needs to be up to the task.  Fun stuff for me, just different from an 8000+ rpm race engine. 

We ran a Stock Eliminator engine the day before this one.  Sure was a different program.  A DTS has a load adjustment knob on the console.  This 469 wouldn't load at 2500....it was like it was driving through a converter.  We had to crank the load knob almost all the way to pull it down to 2200 to start a low pull.  Kinda funny.....it drew laughs from Jim and me once we figured out how to get the dyno to run it.  We did some steady state and very slow rate pulls to get really good air/fuel data.  We had fun with it.
Blair Patrick

Barry_R

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 12:02:12 AM »
You can play the load up/down on the DTS a bit by rotating one of the water control cogs a tooth in either direction - I've had to do it a couple times.  Learned the trick from one of the DTS guys several years ago when they were still in business - when we were required to pull a 505 inches down to 2500 for EMC testing.  You can also "overpressure" them a bit if you have a motor controller on the inlet pump.  Doing that will pretty much bring a smaller engine to it's knees if you forget to readjust for the next session...

blykins

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2020, 04:48:51 AM »
I think we all like doing something different now and again.  If you do the same stuff over and over, you don't learn much. 

I will say that's why I like dyno'ing where I dyno.  The dyno may be older, but it's a manual valve Stuska, and we can load it until it chokes the engine out.  I've done some similar truck engines and we could successfully pull them down to 2500.  That's a bit lower than we normally start the "spirited" engine pulls. 

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CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2020, 07:39:16 AM »
Hey Barry, I have heard about moving the one tooth before.  Getting them to load way down low with a lot of torque can require a recipe.

Brent, I have a Stuska with Dpac data, that had been updated before Dave got killed.  We aren't too far from having it running here.  I spent a lot of time and made thousands of pulls on a Stuska/Dpac with manual load many years ago.  When I went looking, that is what I wanted.  We will be able to run automated or manual load.  Hard to beat a Stuska.
Blair Patrick

WConley

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2020, 10:18:38 AM »
Blair - That's a heck of piece you built there  8)  600 ft-lbs all day.  I'm drooling!  Having that in a street-driven full-size Ford would be heaven.
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2020, 11:00:10 AM »
Thanks Bill!  Means a whole lot coming from a man who has seen and done what you have.  I have been thinking how neat that engine would be in a big car or a power brake Mustang or Fairlane.  It is so smooth idling when warm.  I think in a car I would put the cam on a 112 separation so it would peak about 56-5700.........still would be mean but not having to lug a trailer I think the 112 would be better in a car.  An overdrive manual, or lock-up AOD would be a pup with that low end on tap.  Take care.....
Blair Patrick

WConley

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2020, 11:31:20 AM »
...  An overdrive manual, or lock-up AOD would be a pup with that low end on tap.  Take care.....

I can tell you that at Ford, we spent a ton of development time massaging the low-end torque curve.  Fat and flat brings out the biggest smiles (at least when it comes to engines)  :o

Anybody can throw together a combo that puts up a peak HP number.  That's the guy spinning his wheels in the mud hole.  I'd much rather be the guy who pulls him out while calmly sipping a latte with the A/C on  ;D

I love reading about your stuff Blair.  Hopefully soon I'll be able to show you guys some new stuff I'm working on.  The Covid lockdown has severely limited my time on the CNC...
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

frnkeore

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2020, 12:45:06 PM »
Blair, on those high flowing heads, did you use 30 deg seats?

Your low rpm numbers are outstanding!
Frank

CaptCobrajet

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2020, 03:35:53 PM »
Blair, on those high flowing heads, did you use 30 deg seats?

Your low rpm numbers are outstanding!

Seven angles on the intake valve, and there is a 30 in there, but it isn't the seat.

Two top angles, an .080 wide seat on the exhaust to help carry away the heat, a radius, and another little blend angle on the bottom.

That's all I'll say about the seat work, but safe to say they ain't the average three angle deal, and it makes a large difference.  8)
Blair Patrick

70bosscat

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2020, 01:30:48 PM »
Blair,

First I have to say that's a really nice build that would be just the ticket in a 60's vintage Galaxie. If you were to swap on a set of your EMC iron heads, what kind of torque/hp changes do you think you'd see?

Ric

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2020, 03:28:10 PM »
The torque of this build is nothing short of amazing! Awesome build. I like that its a lower rpm build as this what I would utilize in my own 67 highboy. Torque right where you need it and tons of it!

ROBSREDFORD

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2020, 08:44:26 AM »
I’m impressed but got few questions my dyno experience is large diesels and I’m not accustomed to seeing dyno on gas engines.  On the second dyno sheet the torque numbers fluctuate up and down not smooth continuous rise or fall.... why is that ?

e philpott

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Re: BP Truck Application 469FE
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2020, 05:27:20 PM »
I’m impressed but got few questions my dyno experience is large diesels and I’m not accustomed to seeing dyno on gas engines.  On the second dyno sheet the torque numbers fluctuate up and down not smooth continuous rise or fall.... why is that ?

Read the last paragraph of post #21, he touched on it wanting to drive through the Dyno and had to readjust the Dyno for the low rpm torque