Possible alternative for flat tappet motors

[Sand hauler]

Discovered this while surfing the interwebs. Was wondering if anyone has used it, or thoughts on using it for there flat tappet motors ?

[chris401]

I have not used 10w/30 Motorcraft but have ran Rotella 15w/40 for the last 9 years.

[CaptCobrajet]

Haven't run that.  Look up Amsoil Z-rod.  Lots of zinc and other flat tappet friendly ingredients.  Not for a brand new engine.....only after sufficient break in.  The Amsoil break in oil is mineral based, and has 2200 ppm zinc.  I am sold on the stuff.  We have been dynoing and running the break in oil for 500 miles, and then switch to the appropriate Amsoil synthetic after the break in.  Their break in oil has friction modifiers to promote ring seal prior to putting the synthetic in there.  Just my thoughts and opinions.

[Sand hauler]

I used the rotela also in the past as well as delo . This one here states right on the bottle over 1000 ppm zinc so there no wondering, just thought maybe it would be a more affordable option to the V1 and others.  Idk what say you builders?

[Sand hauler]

A good point Blair, just thought I'd throw it out there as a possible option especially for the price

[FElony]

I used the rotela also in the past as well as delo . This one here states right on the bottle over 1000 ppm zinc so there no wondering, just thought maybe it would be a more affordable option to the V1 and others.  Idk what say you builders?

It says over 1000 ppm of phosphorus, not zinc. Two different things. Is there a further breakdown online?

[FElony]

Haven't run that.  Look up Amsoil Z-rod.  Lots of zinc and other flat tappet friendly ingredients.  Not for a brand new engine.....only after sufficient break in.  The Amsoil break in oil is mineral based, and has 2200 ppm zinc.  I am sold on the stuff.  We have been dynoing and running the break in oil for 500 miles, and then switch to the appropriate Amsoil synthetic after the break in.  Their break in oil has friction modifiers to promote ring seal prior to putting the synthetic in there.  Just my thoughts and opinions.

Amsoil says their break-in oil has no friction modifiers.

I've mentioned this a while back, but a sit-down with the guy who runs Torco Oil near me resulted in his saying that anything over 1400 ppm zinc was detrimental, and 1100-1200 was the sweet spot. Any clue why he would say that? I mean, I believe you have success with Amsoil, don't jump to any conclusions. Too much of that lately around here.

Have you ever tried Amsoil for break-in and non-synthetic after that? You run the initial oil for 500 miles? Shouldn't the break-in oil be dumped to remove assembly lube and any particles that result? Thanks for your feedback.

[Sand hauler]

https://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/#triviaq


Here's a link to the article I found on it from rock auto

[FElony]

https://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/#triviaq


Here's a link to the article I found on it from rock auto

Interesting. He mentions 1400 ppm also as the upper limit, as Torco told me for flat tappet cams. I wonder if the 2200 Blair uses is on roller cam engines.

I'm not buying that z and p are the same thing. I have seen numerous data sheets over the years, and they are always broken down separately. Here's an example. https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/ff44b91e-cb81-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3/8213a6c1-0cbd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1. However, they are pretty close. I suspect there's an effort going on to conflate the two using an average. Why else would Ford plaster that number on the oil bottle?

I suppose if you were to try and target a sweet spot, you could use the Ford oil and the "proper" amount of ZDDP additive. I think a lot of guys just dump the bottle into an oil change because math is too hard, and wind up with problems.

[Sand hauler]

Lol maybe so,I believe the 2200 ppm is just for the break in process or at least that's how I understand it.  Just thought it'd be a good possible alternative on a tight budget.

[FElony]

Lol maybe so,I believe the 2200 ppm is just for the break in process or at least that's how I understand it.  Just thought it'd be a good possible alternative on a tight budget.

Blair did mention ring seal, but my thoughts revolve around camshaft break-in. We'll see.

Lots of good feedback elsewhere on the oil private labeled through Walmart. Seems a good choice for daily driving. Last time I checked msds, it had ZDDP in the middle of the pack.

[Sand hauler]

That's good to know , thanks for the info

[frnkeore]

The two best builders, in my area, have recommended Driven to me and to steer away from synthetic, until it is broke in.

I will also look for the Amsoil Break In oil, too.

[CaptCobrajet]

Felony, I probably used a wrong term there.  The "friction modifiers" I was referring to are designed to aid in ring seating, and are really a separate conversation from the zinc/phosphorus conversation.  Before you can successfully change over to a synthetic, you MUST have ring seal.  The R&D folks at Amsoil know this, and the break-in oil is formulated to aid ring seal on a properly prepped cylinder wall. 

I wouldn't discourage a person from dumping the start-up oil fairly quickly, but my thoughts are to run the break in oil for the 500 miles.  If that leads you to refill with more of the break in oil, I wouldn't see how that is a bad idea.

While the flat tappet cams get the most conversation, there are parts of the valvetrain, thrust bearings, cam thrust plate, timing chain and gears, etc., ........all places where direct oil pressure is not present, that benefit from zinc and phosphorus.  While the OEMs went to roller tappets to cut down on zinc in order to keep from plugging up catalytic converters, I believe that roller lifters still benefit from high zinc when spring loads are higher than "stock", and new parts are wearing themselves into happy places. 

I've had great success with the Amsoil "program" lately......I was just adding a little info that I thought might help.  I was a VR1 fan for years, and poked a few holes in Valvoline Racing Oil cans when they were cardboard with metal tops........I think Valvoline is great oil, but I have gone another direction....

FWIW, I think Brad Penn break in oil is very good.  The Driven would be my last choice.  I have heard that the base stock before the additives is not the best......

[FElony]

Blair, in the old days it was suggested, to properly seat rings, an aggressive wind-up and wind-down in gear, several times, was best. On a test stand, how would you break in rings along with the recommended procedure (20 min varying rpm) for breaking in a flat tappet cam?

That 500-mile break-in thing. What about a track-only engine that will never see 500 miles? Rumor has it you have built one or two of those. I mean, if it takes 500 miles for all the parts to find their happy place, is a race motor ever actually broken in, or does it spend its life not quite so happy?