Fuel System Question

[CV355]

When we purchased our '69 Mach 1, it had an improperly-mounted Holley Red fuel pump running directly from a 12vdc toggle switch.  Sure, that works, but it isn't safe nor ideal.  During the rewiring process, we are setting it up on its own relay.  I didn't like the fuel line routing, so I plan on redoing that.  I then noticed that the fuel regulator is non-return with no bypass, and there is no controller for the electric fuel pump - is that normal?  Pump straight to non-bypass regulator to carb?  I'll admit, carb cars are not my forte but I am learning.  I've done EFI in both return and returnless, but never a custom carb fuel system solution.

1)  I'm looking at the Holley 12-800 Billet In-Line pump to retire the angry red pump - any other suggestions?
2)  I'll need a new fuel regulator- figuring non-return style, so where in the system would a pressure relief/bypass be necessary? 

[BattlestarGalactic]

It all depends on how safe you want to be.  Yours sounds like they did it like most do: quick and dirty.

In reality, you would need a pressure switch on the oil line to activate the pump.  That way, if you stall the engine, or whatever, it shuts the fuel pump off.  This of course gives you no primer function(you need a separate button for that to activate the relay).

Most regulators you get with those red/blue Holley pumps are NOT return style.  Just dead heads against it.  They work, as they have been around forever.  The pumps do have a bypass valve built into the body.  I ran a blue pump for years, until I got tired of fixing it all the time and went with a Mallory 140 with bypass and haven't touched it in decades.

The pump you are looking at states: 
These pumps do not have an internal bypass. A bypass style regulator and return line are required.

So you'll need to install a new bypass regulator and a return line to the tank.

[Drew Pojedinec]

You don’t need a pressure relief.

Carter (and others) sell a 12v switch that works off oil pressure to kill the pump. Engine dies, fuel pump shuts off.

[BigBlueIron]

This is what you want to control your relay https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-a68301 Has a circuit for starting to prime the system.

[My427stang]

Deadhead regulators work fine in most cases if the pump doesn't exceed max pressure by a wide margin, but if you had a return, especially close to the carburetor, the fuel would stay cooler, pump could last longer, etc. 

That  Holley pump is powerful enough to blow the float to the bottom of the float bowls.  Check with Holley, but I would guess that design doesn't like to be deadheaded at that much pressure difference (max 80-ish, held back to 7-ish)  If running that, I would do a good regulator with a return equal in diameter to the feed.

Any relay should be fine that will carry the max amperage load of the pump.

EDITED for silly and frequent spelling errors

[Drew Pojedinec]

That is the one I use BigBlueIron. Many years no problems.
I use a Carter 4600HP pump and QF billet regulator.
I can’t over emphasize how much better carbs work with a steady 5psi.

I have never run a return line and never needed to. I should try it one day as an experiment.

[My427stang]

That is the one I use BigBlueIron. Many years no problems.
I use a Carter 4600HP pump and QF billet regulator.
I can’t over emphasize how much better carbs work with a steady 5psi.

I have never run a return line and never needed to. I should try it one day as an experiment.

That Carter is a very nice pump, but it's not an 80 psi EFI pump.  If deadhead, I'd use the one you use too

[Dan859]

How much quieter is that Carter pump than the Holley Red pump?  I have the Holley pump in my car and I'd like to find something quieter.
Thanks,
Dan

[Drew Pojedinec]

Considerably quieter

[Rory428]

I guess the Holley electric fuel pumps, and running them deadheaded, can be all bad, I have been running the same Holley "Blue" fuel pumps and regulators for over 30 years now, in my Fairmont. No return line, no relay, ..no problem.  All I have ever had to do, was replace a bottom cover gasket, that would leak for a short time after sitting in the garage all winter, about 15 years ago. That said, they are pretty noisy, and I decided years ago that a good Carter mechanical pump was good enough for the vast majority of my street cars, basically like a factory 428 CJ pump. No noise, no wiring or figuring out where to mount an elecrtic.

[66FAIRLANE]

Not wanting anymore 'stuff' in the engine bay than necessary I use a tachometric relay from early EFI systems to control the pump. No tach signal, no pump. Has a start circuit bypass.

[BigBlueIron]

Not wanting anymore 'stuff' in the engine bay than necessary I use a tachometric relay from early EFI systems to control the pump. No tach signal, no pump. Has a start circuit bypass.

Never heard of a tachometric relay, that looks pretty slick after looking into it. Not sure if or what I would use that on but good to be aware of it.. Thanks

 Thinking about it some more that could be a great solution for FE's since oil ports or should I say port in most cases are at a minimum.

[Falcon67]

The Red is 97 GPH, the blues are 110 GPH.  IMHO anything un-self regulated above 60 GPH should have a return regulator and line.  Regulator mounts AFTER the carbs, not before the carb feed(s).  If you're going to stick with using that jack hammer on the car. 

[ToddK]

Not wanting anymore 'stuff' in the engine bay than necessary I use a tachometric relay from early EFI systems to control the pump. No tach signal, no pump. Has a start circuit bypass.

Hey Andy, do you have a part number for that relay? I’ve used a similar type relay out of an early 80’s VW before, but I’ve lost the part number. It worked well, would allow the pump to prime for a few seconds when the ignition was first switched on, then would not run unless it had a tach signal.

[66FAIRLANE]

Hi Todd

I get them from wreckers as they can be reeeeeaaal pricey new. XE Falcon with the Bosch J-Jetronic have them. On the drivers side shock tower from memory. The K-Jetronic (used in XF's) doesn't have them. The CPU controls it. Even with the Holley Sniper EFI I use one on the lift pump.